NBA Playoffs! Round 2, Game 4: Toronto Raptors 93 - Cleveland Cavaliers 128 (CLE WINS 4-0)

[veda-parabolist]

Haha I'm just trying to keep everyone in view of the big picture. Which is this franchise has sucked for 75% of the time they've existed, and right now they don't. And I'm afraid if things get blown up they'll go right back to sucking for another 10-12 years. Then I'll be mad

Fair enough. For some reason, losing these games like this feels just as bad, or worse, as sucking right now. There's always next season. It would just be nice if we could not fall so short of expectations like happened here. Going down in 6 in 2016-17 felt like a huge victory. Falling this season feels like a big defeat. I guess it's all expectations. Also it was frustrating the way it went down.

But I hear what you're saying. Better to look on the bright side. It was a fun season to be sure.

[The Claw Reborn]

Raps need to find a gritty guy -- this team was missing it in this series. OG may become that guy eventually, but he's not now.

I agree OG is still raw but for a rookie to show no fear and assigned by a coach like a Casey to guard the best players of every team says a lot. For him to show range is something to be excited.

[Other Scott]

You didn't answer my question. Turner is not mobile. Neither is Sabonis. Good talk though.

From Draft Express on Sabonis:
"Sabonis doesn't have the flashiest or most exciting game, but he did enough at Nike Academy to help solidify his status as a potential first round pick in the 2016 NBA Draft. Sabonis appeared to have added some more bulk to his frame while still maintaining his excellent mobility that allows him to get up and down in transition, defend the perimeter, and dive hard to the rim out of pick and roll sets. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...Sabonis-62889/ ©DraftExpress"

Turner isn't super mobile, I agree, maybe like current Ibaka levels, but I don't think he spent a ton of time on Love anyways.

[The Claw Reborn]

Derozan was hidden by the coach to guard the weakest wing player of every team.

It’s kinda sad.

All these years good god

[Sonny]

Not improved anything in the past few years? he has gotten better EVERY YEAR. Last season he regressed because of his new role.

His first first year he averaged 16ppg. 20ppg the following year. 24ppg last year. This year it was down to 17ppg.

Compare Wiggins first 3 years to DeRozan's first 3 years.

I'll wait.

DeRozan is a better player than Wiggins right now.

[MixxAOR]

I rather we suck for 5 years with a chance to be like the sixers, than to never win a championship.

Raptors can easily end up like Kings. I've seen it

[Other Scott]

He was able to show at the 3 point line and block shots at the rim. His defense wasn't the issue

Love with JV on the court: 30 FG% 16 3PT%
Love with JV off the court: 72 FG% 80 3PT% (LOL)

https://on.nba.com/2rnukZ8

A lot of that is either from Game 1 or with Tristan on the floor, but I'll concede that JV on the floor with Love wasn't used enough.

And that 80% 3 PT percentage isn't a sustainable real number, but yes the team as a whole could not do anything about Love. Which is kind of my point.

[S.R.]

Derozan was hidden by the coach to guard the weakest wing player of every team.

It’s kinda sad.

All these years good god

What's worse is how badly that's failed. It's insane how much Indy stifled Cleveland's role players one round ago but they just went HAM on guys like DeRozan.

[The Great One]

DeRozan is a better player than Wiggins right now.

Obviously he is lol. But that's not really the point.

[Truth Teller]

How does Masai fleece teams? Will there be anyone in this years draft that would give us a lottery pick for these guys? You can sell Lowry, DD and Ibaka as a winning team's second or third best player.

[white men can't jump]

Oh, I'm not saying if there's a great opportunity to move away from DeMar you don't move away from DeMar. I'm just saying in terms of the value DeMar has brought to the franchise it's at least as much as Vince if not more, despite Vince being a more talented player.

I don't think you appreciate how important Vince was to this franchise. Especially with $$ oriented ownership. If the team sucked for a few more years because we never drafted Vince or he busted, is there still a team in Toronto? Or would they have sold it back south of the border? Not saying it for sure would've happened, but why would MLSE want losses from the Raps digging into their profits from the Leafs?

Vince didn't just help establish Toronto as a basketball market, he made it a viable business. Unfortunately that's why the relationship soured. He felt he put them on the map (and had dedicated himself to the team and the city, in which he was a visible presence and hosted things like his summer charity game), but the owners were content scrapping by as a treadmill team. No one stays happy if that never changes. That's why I hope Giannis asks for a trade in the next 2-4 years.

[Truth Teller]

Raptors can easily end up like Kings. I've seen it

The Kings had a better run with Peja, Bibby, CWebb than the Raptors ever had... I'll take that. They had a legit shot to win before getting rigged out of a ring.

[white men can't jump]

A lot of that is either from Game 1 or with Tristan on the floor, but I'll concede that JV on the floor with Love wasn't used enough.

And that 80% 3 PT percentage isn't a sustainable real number, but yes the team as a whole could not do anything about Love. Which is kind of my point.

Yes, but the reason it's 80% was because he got a shitload of open looks even with the supposedly "quicker" lineups without JV. It usually backfired because we'd be scrambling too much.

[MixxAOR]

The Kings had a better run with Peja, Bibby, CWebb than the Raptors ever had... I'll take that. They had a legit shot to win before getting rigged out of a ring.

that was 16 years ago. What have they done since? Would you wait for 16 years?

[Other Scott]

What's worse is how badly that's failed. It's insane how much Indy stifled Cleveland's role players one round ago but they just went HAM on guys like DeRozan.

There was some stifling and there was also some major improvement for those players. Sometimes you guys act like there's no variation in how the opposing team plays, it's all on whether the Raptors play well or poorly.

Cleveland without a doubt played better in this series offensively. The defense independent numbers like open 3 pt percentage being like 15% higher is evidence of that. They also didn't turn the ball over like at all, which is a balance of offense and defensive.