Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Enjoy the games

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Craig wrote: View Post
    lets discuss last nights game then.... lets start with any amazing execution you might have seen:

    Or maybe we could talk about how well Jonas and Amir defended the bulls front court, which is the main reason we won the game.

    Comment


    • #17
      #CompeteNOW
      #3rdSeed
      #Titlein3Years

      Comment


      • #18
        I take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" (regardless what their actual stated preferences for team-building are) have been the only antagonistic posters on RR this season. At times, folks from both sides have dug their heels in and been aggressive, blatantly or passively.

        I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning.

        As a "pro-tanker" (re-builder/re-tooler actually, as explained numerous times) I can cheer for the team as passionately as any "anti-tanker", despite my belief that the team would still be better served in the long-run by undergoing some degree of retooling/rebuilding (unfortunately many "anti-tankers" lump any such strategy into "tanking" far too often).

        I think the biggest problem throughout this debate is when posters make assumption about other posters' preferences, rather than taking the time to hear them out and consider those other perspectives for alternative team-building strategies. Far too many people react as though it's a black-and-white debate when, in fact, it's an issue with a massive gray area filled with many intriguing nuances associated with each alternative.

        If you want to avoid the animosity, I suggest posters take time to actually read posts and think them through objectively, rather than reacting with preconceived bias after simply seeing who made the post. Respect should also be given to all posts, whether you completely agree or vehemently disagree.

        Comment


        • #19
          CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
          I take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" (regardless what their actual stated preferences for team-building are) have been the only antagonistic posters on RR this season. At times, folks from both sides have dug their heels in and been aggressive, blatantly or passively.

          I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning.

          As a "pro-tanker" (re-builder/re-tooler actually, as explained numerous times) I can cheer for the team as passionately as any "anti-tanker", despite my belief that the team would still be better served in the long-run by undergoing some degree of retooling/rebuilding (unfortunately many "anti-tankers" lump any such strategy into "tanking" far too often).

          I think the biggest problem throughout this debate is when posters make assumption about other posters' preferences, rather than taking the time to hear them out and consider those other perspectives for alternative team-building strategies. Far too many people react as though it's a black-and-white debate when, in fact, it's an issue with a massive gray area filled with many intriguing nuances associated with each alternative.

          If you want to avoid the animosity, I suggest posters take time to actually read posts and think them through objectively, rather than reacting with preconceived bias after simply seeing who made the post. Respect should also be given to all posts, whether you completely agree or vehemently disagree.
          1. I don't think anyone is suggesting that pro tankers are the ONLY antagonistic ones. But a few are the most unrelenting ones, by a country mile. And whatever was going on months ago (as in "at times") is history. Some wish to still keep their heels dug in, and keep shouting it for all to hear. Some just want to enjoy whats happening, soak in the fun in watching this young team grow together, but it's hard when that booing fan in the seat beside you just won't stop for the entire game, even with the team playing so damn well.

          2. "I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning."
          Once again, it's not about ALL "pro-tankers", but the unrelenting few. Game threads alone can shine some light on that, as even they are not immune from people trying to rain on the team playing well and winning. Have a look at recent ones, including last night. That's the shit people are getting tired of, and have a right to say something.

          Comment


          • #20
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            I take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" (regardless what their actual stated preferences for team-building are) have been the only antagonistic posters on RR this season. At times, folks from both sides have dug their heels in and been aggressive, blatantly or passively.

            I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning.

            As a "pro-tanker" (re-builder/re-tooler actually, as explained numerous times) I can cheer for the team as passionately as any "anti-tanker", despite my belief that the team would still be better served in the long-run by undergoing some degree of retooling/rebuilding (unfortunately many "anti-tankers" lump any such strategy into "tanking" far too often).

            I think the biggest problem throughout this debate is when posters make assumption about other posters' preferences, rather than taking the time to hear them out and consider those other perspectives for alternative team-building strategies. Far too many people react as though it's a black-and-white debate when, in fact, it's an issue with a massive gray area filled with many intriguing nuances associated with each alternative.

            If you want to avoid the animosity, I suggest posters take time to actually read posts and think them through objectively, rather than reacting with preconceived bias after simply seeing who made the post. Respect should also be given to all posts, whether you completely agree or vehemently disagree.
            Read my post again. I was not only talking to pro tankers (I am one myself for Petes sake).

            Notice I said "tank or anti-tank" and "win/loss". Nobody's attacking a particular group here.

            Comment


            • #21
              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
              I take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" (regardless what their actual stated preferences for team-building are) have been the only antagonistic posters on RR this season. At times, folks from both sides have dug their heels in and been aggressive, blatantly or passively.

              I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning.

              As a "pro-tanker" (re-builder/re-tooler actually, as explained numerous times) I can cheer for the team as passionately as any "anti-tanker", despite my belief that the team would still be better served in the long-run by undergoing some degree of retooling/rebuilding (unfortunately many "anti-tankers" lump any such strategy into "tanking" far too often).

              I think the biggest problem throughout this debate is when posters make assumption about other posters' preferences, rather than taking the time to hear them out and consider those other perspectives for alternative team-building strategies. Far too many people react as though it's a black-and-white debate when, in fact, it's an issue with a massive gray area filled with many intriguing nuances associated with each alternative.

              If you want to avoid the animosity, I suggest posters take time to actually read posts and think them through objectively, rather than reacting with preconceived bias after simply seeing who made the post. Respect should also be given to all posts, whether you completely agree or vehemently disagree.
              I applaud you CRF for trying to explain for the upteenth time about the non-monolithic nature of the "tank" process.

              The non-tankers funnily enough are now "berating" the so-called tank group in exactly like-manner they accuse said-group of. Some make it sound like there was a frontal.

              And we still dont really know MU's chosen path for this season with any degree of certainty. That said the team's current journey is certainly an interesting one. There is one inescapable conundrum: how do we acquire great talent without upsetting the balance/existing talent on this team if not from the draft ...especially this one.

              Comment


              • #22
                Havint read a post...but look its a battle of those thinking short term pain is worth long term gain- Tank nation...I respect and I was a member of. But its not the hand were dealt, were stuck with one of the best teams in the east(if only because the east blows) and if were risking our future by taking on bad contacts just for a better contact its not worth it.

                Let the dice roll-Trade Lowry if a good deal shows itself, but otherwise were a mid to late first round pick with a young team, and decent space-I can live with.

                If we can trade assets like Novak/Haynes for late picks(even 2nd rounders)-great.

                Comment


                • #23
                  We all enjoy the games, whether we're part of tank nation or not we still enjoy the games. The entertainment value has not been lost, I still love watching the Raptors play, even if I wish they were the shittiest team in the league.

                  We can all agree what they are doing right now is fun to watch. No one is watching any of the games hoping the shots start to fall for the other team, and that the Raps get their asses kicked, that wouldn't even make you a fan anymore, it's practically impossible to cheer for the opposing team if you truly are a die hard fan for your team. So I don't know where you get the idea that people aren't cheering for this team anymore just because they wish for a high lottery pick.
                  You come at the King, you best not miss.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    For the umpteenth time: there is an ignore list, use it.

                    Quit playing the victim.
                    If you don't like something do something about it rather than complaining.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There's always going to be a difference of opinion. That's the beauty of a forum. Think of it as hanging out with your friends at a bar. On some occasions, you're going to have a different opinion than one of your buddies. There's no right and there's no wrong for the most part. You accept each other's ideas for what they are - good, bad, it doesn't matter. You read the opinion, you give yours and you move on. In the end, you want what's best for what your common goal is - in this case, it's the Raptors - that's why we're all here.

                      I will tell you though, while I would like this team to get a higher selection in this year's draft, I am enjoying the way this team is playing as a group over this stretch. It's a lot of fun.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        I take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" (regardless what their actual stated preferences for team-building are) have been the only antagonistic posters on RR this season. At times, folks from both sides have dug their heels in and been aggressive, blatantly or passively.

                        I also take issue with the implication that "pro-tankers" don't still enjoy watching the team play well, the young players develop, or the team actually winning.

                        As a "pro-tanker" (re-builder/re-tooler actually, as explained numerous times) I can cheer for the team as passionately as any "anti-tanker", despite my belief that the team would still be better served in the long-run by undergoing some degree of retooling/rebuilding (unfortunately many "anti-tankers" lump any such strategy into "tanking" far too often).

                        I think the biggest problem throughout this debate is when posters make assumption about other posters' preferences, rather than taking the time to hear them out and consider those other perspectives for alternative team-building strategies. Far too many people react as though it's a black-and-white debate when, in fact, it's an issue with a massive gray area filled with many intriguing nuances associated with each alternative.

                        If you want to avoid the animosity, I suggest posters take time to actually read posts and think them through objectively, rather than reacting with preconceived bias after simply seeing who made the post. Respect should also be given to all posts, whether you completely agree or vehemently disagree.
                        Honestly, I think you should accept some responsibility around here. I noticed your bias for your pro-tanker friends a long time ago. The truth is you mis-lead a lot of posters. Rebuilding/re-tooling can be done without tanking. However, you decided to lump yourself in with the most ardent pro-tankers.

                        Pro-tankers walk a VERY thin line. You want to be looked at as supporting your team and you say you want the team to win......Yet deep inside you want us to lose so that we can have a CHANCE at a top 5 pick.

                        I'm sorry BUT i don't agree with the way pro-tankers hijacked this site. It's pretty disgusting - looking at the loss of integrity around these parts. I enjoy seeing you guys scramble to make your way back to the right side. This is where you belong! It's great to see our fans come together and support this team (this group of guys playing their asses off for our city). THIS is what we anti-tankers were asking for! If you secretly want the team to lose to get a top pick.....keep it to yourself. We want our young guys to win NOW.

                        Some pro-tankers can change the rhetoric now, but i think its best to admit that you didn't believe in this team. You finally received the "proof" you were waiting for and now your ready to support this team (playoffs or no playoffs). Jump on the bandwagon pro-tankers! It's all good! You too Matt52!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          special1 wrote: View Post
                          Honestly, I think you should accept some responsibility around here. I noticed your bias for your pro-tanker friends a long time ago. The truth is you mis-lead a lot of posters. Rebuilding/re-tooling can be done without tanking. However, you decided to lump yourself in with the most ardent pro-tankers.

                          Pro-tankers walk a VERY thin line. You want to be looked at as supporting your team and you say you want the team to win......Yet deep inside you want us to lose so that we can have a CHANCE at a top 5 pick.

                          I'm sorry BUT i don't agree with the way pro-tankers hijacked this site. It's pretty disgusting - looking at the loss of integrity around these parts. I enjoy seeing you guys scramble to make your way back to the right side. This is where you belong! It's great to see our fans come together and support this team (this group of guys playing their asses off for our city). THIS is what we anti-tankers were asking for! If you secretly want the team to lose to get a top pick.....keep it to yourself. We want our young guys to win NOW.

                          Some pro-tankers can change the rhetoric now, but i think its best to admit that you didn't believe in this team. You finally received the "proof" you were waiting for and now your ready to support this team (playoffs or no playoffs). Jump on the bandwagon pro-tankers! It's all good! You too Matt52!
                          I'm sorry, but you're completely full of shit.

                          First, going back to the offseason (might have even been the end of last season) when there was a thread with a poll that asked posters to classify themselves as "tankers" or "tweakers", I never voted. I posted my rationale in that thread and many times since, stating that I believed in a retooling (ie: more than a tweak, but not a blatant tank).

                          Second, despite the teams' success so far this season, I still have serious reservations about their ability to be successful in any sustainable manner, without some retooling. The same problems continue to persist, primarily the fact that the team is capped-out (assuming Lowry is re-signed, because this team would be a part of the EC 'tankapalooza' without Lowry) and needs to rely on organic growth to improve further. Of course they could do so via trade (ie: talent for talent, such as DeRozan), which is exactly what retooling is. Many EC teams below Toronto in the current standings have been decimated by injuries, many are stockpiling young talent, many are stockpiling 1st round draft picks, many will have substantial cap space; it's very likely that at least some of them will equal or better the Raptors next season. Remember, 'no man's land' isn't just a here-and-now concept, but rather a fluid one (and I'm sure MU is well aware of this, to avoid a repeat of BC's approach in 06-07).

                          Third, the only "tanking" I ever supported was rebuilding/retooling that started during this season, when I did expect them to be a playoff bubble team at best. My rationale has always been that if a rebuild/retool was inevitable (ie: if that's what MU wants to do), they may as well start this season instead of waiting until next offseason, to ALSO take advantage of the allegedly strong/deep 2014 draft. I never once have said anything along the lines of "lets dump all our good players to lose on purpose to draft higher and get a savior"; the draft was also a beneficial by-product of a proper rebuild/retool, as far as any team-building strategy I proposed.

                          Fourth, what "proof" do you speak of? Had the rumored Lowry-to-NY trade happened, this team would be "tanking". If MU trades Lowry before the deadline, this team will be "tanking". Same goes for DeRozan or Johnson. I don't know what will happen, nor does anybody not named Masai Ujiri, pro-tanker or anti-tanker. Get off your high horse.


                          All I ever wanted was for the team to be rebuilt/retooled properly, far more efficiently and effectively than any of BC's frankenteams. MU unloaded Bargnani for draft picks, swapped Gay's uncertain albatross contract for several serviceable players (3 are/could be expiring), and was rumored to be looking to sell-high on Lowry's expiring contract. All those moves were perfectly aligned with my preferred approach, as stated several times in multiple threads (including 2 separate respectful exchanges directly with you).

                          I'm really not sure why you're spewing such venom at myself, Matt52 and others, in the midst of a fantastic 12 game stretch in the wake of the Gay trade. MU has yet to make any moves that run counter to the type of team-building I support. The team is winning, which is great.

                          The only "proof" I see is proof of your continued ignorance, as opposed to actually trying to understand the team-building strategy being promoted by many (not all) 'pro-tankers'. Instead, you (and some other 'anti-tankers') have always maintained your own preconceived notion about "tanking" and arbitrarily painted all 'pro-tankers' with the same brush, even when we went to great lengths to try and explain that what you think "tanking" is and what we want are two entirely different things!

                          It's never been all about losing and improving the Raptors' own 2014 1st round pick, as a be-all and end-all strategy. As such, I'm not the least bit disappointed to see this team improving and winning. I've also not changed my belief that at some point, some degree of retooling will be necessary for this team to truly jump to the next level of contending in the NBA. I still think getting a high lottery pick in the 2014 draft would have been a great and logical way to jumpstart any rebuilding/retooling, but there are other ways of getting such a pick, be it during the season or during the draft itself. That's precisely why the asset accumulation part of the strategy has always been far more important to the team-building process than just the Raptors' own 2014 pick for us 'pro-tankers'... maybe that point will sink in someday!
                          Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jan 2nd, 2014, 04:16 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Thank you CalgaryRapsFan

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Good post ^^
                              "Bruno?
                              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                              He's terrible."

                              -Superjudge, 7/23

                              Hope you're wrong.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Why all the fuss folks? Tanking is selling off your assets to improve your draft position. Rebuilding and retooling isn't tanking. Tanking is what you do before you rebuild/retool. Trading Rudy isn't tanking. Hell, trading Kyle at or near the deadline isn't tanking either. At this point, trading Kyle would be simply be cashing in on a valuable expiring asset. If we lose because of it, then so be it, but if a Lowry trade isn't executed soon, then it's likely that moving him will not drop us far enough in the standings to consider it a tank move.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X