Game #7 Toronto Raptors vs Phoenix Suns - Jan 6 - 9:00pm ET

[A.I]

They played pretty well against a very good team tonight. Some missed free throws and a slightly less hot shooting suns performance and it could easily have gone the other way.

Those of you asking tank the year, maybe go cheer for the knicks or something. Your lack of faith in our players is disturbing. Nobody wants to watch a team that doesn't at least try hard every game and have a chance, which is basically what you are asking to do just a few games into the season. If mlse decides they won't even try to compete just to get a draft pick, thats just silly, and they will lose a lot if fans.

I'm one of the more optimistic ones here and love to see the team compete, but if the team is ever going to tank, this season is the best season. They're in Tampa, not Toronto, very few fans in the arenas and starting poorly in a shortened season means you have less time to be able to turn it around.

Based on my experience around social media, if we tank, we'll lose some fans who began watching the team during or after the championship season, which also happens to be the group asking for Pascal's head.

[saints91]

I don’t believe in tanking, and I don’t think we should move Lowry unless he would want to go to a contender. But I also think the league has more parody and we have taken a step back.

These are the teams I think we are definitely better than:

New York, OKC, Sacramento, Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland, Chicago,

Maybe better than Washington, Minnesota and Memphis

So that’s 10 teams. We also have the worst home court setup which could have a bearing on own record.

I think we could finish 6th or 7th worst overall this year. With the new lottery odds we have a better chance of a top 3 pick in a loaded draft.

[The Great One]

I don’t believe in tanking, and I don’t think we should move Lowry unless he would want to go to a contender. But I also think the league has more parody and we have taken a step back.

These are the teams I think we are definitely better than:

New York, OKC, Sacramento, Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland, Chicago,

Maybe better than Washington, Minnesota and Memphis

So that’s 10 teams. We also have the worst home court setup which could have a bearing on own record.

I think we could finish 6th or 7th worst overall this year. With the new lottery odds we have a better chance of a top 3 pick in a loaded draft.

The top 5 teams in the East are obvious. Bucks, Celtics, Nets, Sixers and Heat. They're all unquestionably better than the Raptors. Then there's the Pacers who are much improved this year. They're better than the Raptors. So that's 6th. Then there's the Magic who are already 6-2. Are the Raptors better than them? I don't think so. That's 7. Then there's the Knicks, Wizards, Hawks and Bulls. The Bulls have won 4 of 6 without 4 rotation players including Markkanen. The Hawks and the Wizards have a lot of firepower. The Knicks are 5-3. One of their losses was when they shot 3/36 from 3 against the Raptors. That will never happen again. Are we sure the Raptors are better then these teams?

The best case scenario for the Raptors right now is 8th. Is it really worth it to make the playoffs as an 8th seed just to get swept by I dunno the Nets or the Celtics or the Sixers?

Masai needs to do the RIGHT thing and that is to trade Lowry. Tank the season. This team needs a high draft pick. Masai for some reason is immune to criticism around here but the fact is he's done a HORRIBLE job since Kawhi left. All you need to do is to look at this roster.

[saints91]

I think the only teams we are 100% better than in the East are New York, Charlotte, Chicago, Cleveland. We also are playing with a disadvantage being in Tampa. That’s bound to take a toll on the guys.

[The Great One]

Cleveland? yes. Charlotte? probably.

I want to see them play the Bulls and I want to see them play the Knicks again because the last time they played the Knicks, the Knicks shot the ball so poorly(all time bad) but somehow it was a 3 point game with 8 mins left in the game, Knicks are not gonna shoot 3/36 from 3 again.

[golden]

You never want to lose fans but if people are not going to follow a team that just won a title after 2 years then they are not people that are going to stick around anyway. It's not like the Raps are the old Florida Marlins here..... they are spending money and they have retained their core of young players.

In any case, this team isn't tanking - people are throwing around that word I think in a joking fashion - it is just going through part of the down cycle after a long, successful run. And Raps are well positioned to come out of that cycle quickly (though I didn't think they'd be this bad at this moment!).

Yep. Why can't people understand this? Empires rise and fall. What goes up, must come down. Tanking, in the Raptors sense, simply means trading Lowry, who has been performing at a high level on borrowed time anyway.

What I don't want the Raptors to do is what the Spurs did.... which is a feeble attempt to remain "competitive" by adding deteriorating talent like Aldridge, Gay and Pau Gasol and non-lottery picks who are still decent enough to get you the 8th seed, every other year. I'd rather take a few swings at some high upside young players via draft or trade.

The #WeTheNorth Era started with Lowry & Masai and there's a good possibility it might end this season without Lowry & Masai.

[iblastoff]

so basically we transitioned our past role players and bench unit to starter positions and now have no viable bench or other role players.

[DogeLover1234]

That was a fun game to watch. Great to see Pascal attacking the basket. That’s the guy I remember.

I wish Flynn got a bit more time, he had some great looks, they just wouldn’t fall.

Like I said before the game, just try to watch the games and enjoy having Raptors basketball right now. There’s so much negative stuff going on around us right now, watching these guys shouldn’t be one of them.

The King’s are next, I’ve heard they have been fun to watch this year. I’m excited to see Haliburton play.

Flynn is a bit of an odd case tbh. In his first couple runs its evident hes a rook, hes a bit tentitive, couple blown assignments, not quick there physically - all to be expected and part of the development curve. That being said, after the timeout in the second it seemed like they just told him “shoot the ball” and he came out swinging. Idk I liked what I saw before he took three straight meh shots. Hes a smart player, and while hes got to adjust to the league, he shouldnt try to force his game. Hes a smart basketball player and we arent exactly playing a lot of smart basketball right now.

Next 10 games or so are big. All against playoff hopefulls who probably havent gotten out to the start they wanted. Win 6+ games and we get back on track, 4-5 games and we truly are middling and less than that, well its doomsday around here. Think we probably go 6-4, but does the basketball get a whole lot more convincing? Idk.

[DogeLover1234]

Cleveland? yes. Charlotte? probably.

I want to see them play the Bulls and I want to see them play the Knicks again because the last time they played the Knicks, the Knicks shot the ball so poorly(all time bad) but somehow it was a 3 point game with 8 mins left in the game, Knicks are not gonna shoot 3/36 from 3 again.

As someone who has watched a decent amount of these “up and coming” eastern conference teams, I dont know how the board can be all in on tanking. Cleveland, NYK, Atlanta, Chicago all spent a good while in the lotto and you cant convince me any are better than us, and the only one with a better core is Atlanta. Its fun to watch these teams actually play hard but they arent exactly good yet. Our problem right now isnt that weve had bad picks in the draft, its that weve had NO picks in the draft. Should have traded Norm in the offseason for an extra pick or prospect.

[golden]

so basically we transitioned our past role players and bench unit to starter positions and now have no viable bench or other role players.

TD and Thomas would be firmly in the rotation in the Heat from last year. Developing bench players is Nurse’s fatal flaw.

[slaw]

Flynn is a bit of an odd case tbh. In his first couple runs its evident hes a rook, hes a bit tentitive, couple blown assignments, not quick there physically - all to be expected and part of the development curve. That being said, after the timeout in the second it seemed like they just told him “shoot the ball” and he came out swinging. Idk I liked what I saw before he took three straight meh shots. Hes a smart player, and while hes got to adjust to the league, he shouldnt try to force his game. Hes a smart basketball player and we arent exactly playing a lot of smart basketball right now.

Next 10 games or so are big. All against playoff hopefulls who probably havent gotten out to the start they wanted. Win 6+ games and we get back on track, 4-5 games and we truly are middling and less than that, well its doomsday around here. Think we probably go 6-4, but does the basketball get a whole lot more convincing? Idk.

6-4 is pretty optimistic based on how the team is performing. Heat haven't looked great but they are a tough matchup and Indy is 6-2. That's 4 games. Dallas has been up and down but they have Doncic. GSW and Portland won't be easy. Even the Hornets are playing okay. Game tomorrow in Sactown is probably the easiest in the next stretch and they've beat the Nuggets and Suns. It could be ugly....

[planetmars]

So our championship squad was pretty good (Fred had an off game) and we still came up short. Phoenix was super hot from 3 but our defense wasn't as good as it could have been. It pretty much comes down to our center depth being garbage. I really thought Baynes was going to be good. He's unplayable. Len is okay but worse than average IMO. And Boucher is a PF.

Our roster composition sucks. The only way to fix this roster is to trade for a C. I don't know who's possible or what's available but yeah that's an issue.

We played 18 games before the Gay trade. We were 6-12 at that point. That was Masai's "tank" move.

Can we get to 7 or 8 wins by game 18? That's the barometer. I don't think we will. We'd have to go 6-5 or 7-4 the rest of the way.

- Kings
- Warriors
- Blazers (B2B)
- Hornets
- Hornets
- Mavs
- Heat
- Heat
- Pacers (B2B)
- Pacers
- Bucks


Potential wins against the Kings, Hornets (x2), maybe we beat the Heat and Pacers once.. that's only 5 wins.

Lowry is our move. Once we trade him, it's a full on tank. Let's see what happens after that Bucks game. Circle Jan 27 on your calendars.

[Kagemusha]

I notice the trade for Harden articles popping up again.
Hell no to that.

The planets are lining up for an ideal tank job -
1. Pandemic season
2. They're not playing in Toronto
3. Deep draft

[MixxAOR]

Flynn is a bit of an odd case tbh. In his first couple runs its evident hes a rook, hes a bit tentitive, couple blown assignments, not quick there physically - all to be expected and part of the development curve. That being said, after the timeout in the second it seemed like they just told him “shoot the ball” and he came out swinging. Idk I liked what I saw before he took three straight meh shots. Hes a smart player, and while hes got to adjust to the league, he shouldnt try to force his game. Hes a smart basketball player and we arent exactly playing a lot of smart basketball right now.

Next 10 games or so are big. All against playoff hopefulls who probably havent gotten out to the start they wanted. Win 6+ games and we get back on track, 4-5 games and we truly are middling and less than that, well its doomsday around here. Think we probably go 6-4, but does the basketball get a whole lot more convincing? Idk.

next 10 games

- Kings
-Warriors
- Blazers
- Hornets x 2
- Mavericks
- Heat x 2
- Pacers x 2

I can see us beating Kings, Warriors, Blazers and then it's a bunch of Ls

[Kagemusha]

As someone who has watched a decent amount of these “up and coming” eastern conference teams, I dont know how the board can be all in on tanking. Cleveland, NYK, Atlanta, Chicago all spent a good while in the lotto and you cant convince me any are better than us, and the only one with a better core is Atlanta. Its fun to watch these teams actually play hard but they arent exactly good yet. Our problem right now isnt that weve had bad picks in the draft, its that weve had NO picks in the draft. Should have traded Norm in the offseason for an extra pick or prospect.

What do you mean by we have no picks in the draft?
What happened to the lottery pick system?

We have better scouting and development programs than those teams you mentioned. We have better FO and coaching too.