Game #27 Timberwovles at Raptors Sunday Feb 14th 7pm on SN

[The Great One]

Never should have been in that position against a bottom feeder in the first place. This team is middling and can beat a top team occasionally or lose to a bottom feeder on any day.

The Raptors ar ethe complete definition of a mediocre team. The Wolves 2nd best player didn't even play last night and they still beat the Raptors lol. Embarassing.

Bottomline - The Raptors aren't winning anything with this group. Even if they're in a playoff race at the deadline they still need to trade Lowry and Powell. They can't afford to lose these two for nothing. And if someone offer a king's ransom for FVV or/and Siakam(doubt it) you trade them too. Rebuild. It's time.

[The Great One]

I'm totally shocked.

[JawsGT]

That was an absolute letdown of a game.

[The Claw Reborn]

Yes this team is badly needing a Rebounding Center who not only can defend but can spread the floor with some offensive threat from outside. That said, who the hell is that player?

However there are two main issues plaguing this team from the very start...

• Nurse inability to defend corner threes and his propensity of having his players collapse in the middle defensively leaving the corners vulnerable
• Van Vleet’s high usage and his shooting inefficiency

So before the trade deadline fixed those two bullet points first

[can't teach wingspan]

But Masai.....u can't have it both ways

I'm a bit confused, is it me or Masai trying to have it both ways?

I think I've been pretty consistent: not a fan of tanking overall because high picks don't guarantee success, and I think the Twolves are an excellent case study of that with KAT (drafted #1), Edwards (drafted #1), and Russell (drafted #2). Hell, even Rubio was drafted #5.

I'm all for improving the team, but I'd prefer getting around to improving instead of purposefully sucking on the hope of improving.

[Kagemusha]

I'm totally shocked.

Choker
Masai, pls get this guy an alpha

[Dvdvideo]

I'm totally shocked.

Super lame, this is a tiny sample Size. So easy to armchair criticize pascal, like a hobby for some of you.

[The Great One]

Super lame, this is a tiny sample Size. So easy to armchair criticize pascal, like a hobby for some of you.

27 games is a small sample size? hmm. The most telling thing about that stat is the 9 shots. He's their go to guy and he's only taken 9 shots in the clutch? they've been in so many close games this year and he's only taken 9 shots. Think about that. That means 1. he's afraid to shoot in the clutch(obvious by now) and 2. The play the other night was designed for him but i'm not sure if he wanted the ball.

[Dvdvideo]

27 games is a small sample size? hmm. The most telling thing about that stat is the 9 shots. He's their go to guy and he's only taken 9 shots in the clutch? they've been in so many close games this year and he's only taken 9 shots. Think about that. That means 1. he's afraid to shoot in the clutch(obvious by now) and 2. The play the other night was designed for him but i'm not sure if he wanted the ball.

His lack of shots taken is a combination of the siakam being hesitant at the start of the season and poor coaching. I can tell you that many, many times the other team is now just loading up on siakam and our lack of offensive spacing, screening and movement kills the play. You can't just isolate him every time.

I dont think he fears taking the shot at all.
He looked ready and willing to score on that last drive. Any coach would be happy with that play and player taking that high percentage shot to win.

Also playing 4 on 5 on offense with Bains on the floor makes it even harder for siakam to isolate and score late ....

[G__Deane]

I'm a bit confused, is it me or Masai trying to have it both ways?

I think I've been pretty consistent: not a fan of tanking overall because high picks don't guarantee success, and I think the Twolves are an excellent case study of that with KAT (drafted #1), Edwards (drafted #1), and Russell (drafted #2). Hell, even Rubio was drafted #5.

I'm all for improving the team, but I'd prefer getting around to improving instead of purposefully sucking on the hope of improving.

Well, as fans we keep saying Masai/Bobby are wonder drafters in lower first and later round picks.
Then we say picks are no good as there's no guarantees.

No wonder you're a bit confused. Can't have it both ways ....

[LJ2]

I'm a bit confused, is it me or Masai trying to have it both ways?

I think I've been pretty consistent: not a fan of tanking overall because high picks don't guarantee success, and I think the Twolves are an excellent case study of that with KAT (drafted #1), Edwards (drafted #1), and Russell (drafted #2). Hell, even Rubio was drafted #5.

I'm all for improving the team, but I'd prefer getting around to improving instead of purposefully sucking on the hope of improving.

It goes both ways. You can trade for a Hedo or DeMarre Carroll and for whatever reason it just doesn't work...they probably thought Baynes would be a good idea because of his skill set.

Another aspect to consider regarding drafting players is, would KAT be the Kat we know today if the Raptors drafted him, or would he maybe be an MVP candidate? Our player development is second to none as proven by what they've done with the late and undrafted players we've had through the system.

[G__Deane]

hey it's Game Day!!!

[golden]

It goes both ways. You can trade for a Hedo or DeMarre Carroll and for whatever reason it just doesn't work...they probably thought Baynes would be a good idea because of his skill set.

Another aspect to consider regarding drafting players is, would KAT be the Kat we know today if the Raptors drafted him, or would he maybe be an MVP candidate? Our player development is second to none as proven by what they've done with the late and undrafted players we've had through the system.

Is our player development still that good, though?

Boucher is the only guy who has cracked the lineup with a defined role + stable minutes since Casey and Stackhouse left, and most of that is due to his physical tools, heart, hustle and work on his 3-pt shot. Even then, if Ibaka and Gasol stayed, Boucher would still be on the fringe, or would have simply left in free agency.

Miller never amounted to anything. We developed RHJ to the point where he's right out of the league. Same with Oshae and Dewan - out of work. On the positive side, Davis' had a nice season last year and looked like he was going to be special. Same with Thomas, who is probably a top 5 shooter in this league. And McCaw got a sh*t ton of minutes

This year, Davis' confidence looks totally shot and is regressing and while Thomas is running with the 4th stringers.

Stanley had a 2-3 week stint and is now killing the offense of every bench unit he plays with.

Bembry already had stellar defense and ball-skills before he got here, but he clearly worked on this 3-pt shot in the off-season, otherwise, he'd be RHJ part 2.

Yuta has been a nice surprise, but again, that's almost all heart and hustle, like Boucher.

Basically, we're developing retread, grinder types, which is great in small doses.... but you can't have a whole team of those guys. Especially if you're building around a core of non-alpha scorers like FVV/OG/Siakam.

And Nurse finally figured out (out of necessity) that Powell should have been the starting SG out of training camp last year and FVV should have been coming off the bench to develop his PG skills.

[LJ2]

Is our player development still that good, though?

Boucher is the only guy who has cracked the lineup with a defined role + stable minutes since Casey and Stackhouse left, and most of that is due to his physical tools, heart, hustle and work on his 3-pt shot. Even then, if Ibaka and Gasol stayed, Boucher would still be on the fringe, or would have simply left in free agency.

Miller never amounted to anything. We developed RHJ to the point where he's right out of the league. Same with Oshae and Dewan - out of work. On the positive side, Davis' had a nice season last year and looked like he was going to be special. Same with Thomas, who is probably a top 5 shooter in this league. And McCaw got a sh*t ton of minutes

This year, Davis' confidence looks totally shot and is regressing and while Thomas is running with the 4th stringers.

Stanley had a 2-3 week stint and is now killing the offense of every bench unit he plays with.

Bembry already had stellar defense and ball-skills before he got here, but he clearly worked on this 3-pt shot in the off-season, otherwise, he'd be RHJ part 2.

Yuta has been a nice surprise, but again, that's almost all heart and hustle, like Boucher.

Basically, we're developing retread, grinder types, which is great in small doses.... but you can't have a whole team of those guys. Especially if you're building around a core of non-alpha scorers like FVV/OG/Siakam.

And Nurse finally figured out (out of necessity) that Powell should have been the starting SG out of training camp last year and FVV should have been coming off the bench to develop his PG skills.

Well, I think you might be going a bit off topic here. The point I was replying to was another poster saying Raps should not be aiming to improve through the draft and should instead be looking to trades. The reason provided by the poster was a lot of lottery picks don't work out. I for one do think the Raps still have a great development program and maybe some of those lottery picks that didn't work out could have been better or much better going through our program vs. Minnesota's which was the example given.

In the examples you've provided, and not saying they are not valid, many of the players haven't spent much time in the developmental program which the 905 are a big part of. Bembry, Yuta, haven't been with the organization very long, much less been "developed". The only benefit for them has been that they are in a better system and better coaching. Even Davis didn't have a chance to play with the 905. Boucher has and he's beaten out Baynes and Len...if not for his size he would be our starting C.

Flynn is tearing it up with 905 right now. Nothing is guaranteed, but you give this organization a lottery pick(s) and I think the rate of success is greater than with most other organizations in the NBA.

[G__Deane]

And Nurse finally figured out (out of necessity) that Powell should have been the starting SG out of training camp last year and FVV should have been coming off the bench to develop his PG skills.

You think OG isn't going to start once healthy and Powell back to the bench?

What would a lineup of Pascal, Norm, Boucher, Lowry (or FVV) and OG look like?