Everything 2021 Tank

[A.I]

A rookie contract is 4 years and then we can re-sign him as an RFA for another 4 years, typically. If we have young superstar and we can't build a contender around him within 8 years, then he should leave.

That said, everybody keeps saying that our strength is drafting & developing, right? So, if we truly believe drafting & developing are our unique competitive advantages, then maybe we should double down on that by getting more picks at a higher draft position. If we can turn an undrafted and 27th pick into the 2 core franchise players of playoff team..... what could we do with a pile of top 10 or top 5 picks?

Part of the Raptors good drafting and development is because they have been a winning team and have a good culture for last 8 years. Young players feed off of that, learn from guys like Kyle and get better. That being said, there has been some misses, and they don't affect your team.

You go full blown tank mode, you have no culture, no mentor and are sitting there praying your high draft picks amount to something, and if you miss on a high lottery pick, you're back to square one.

Even if you're a good drafting and development team, you won't hit 100% of the time.

[KeonClark]

Tankers belong in 2 sub categories, we got serious division in the ranks. Theres team #TampaTank, and a small extremist group called team #ScorchedEarth

[magoon]

So, if we truly believe drafting & developing are our unique competitive advantages, then maybe we should double down on that by getting more picks at a higher draft position. If we can turn an undrafted and 27th pick into the 2 core franchise players of playoff team..... what could we do with a pile of top 10 or top 5 picks?

Turning a low-first-rounder into a core player is much easier than turning a lottery pick into a superstar, and getting lottery picks is no guarantee of getting superstars.The Raptors have had two lottery picks in the last decade: those were Terrence Ross and Jakob Poeltl, respectively. We developed both of them well, and they're both good players who are going to have long NBA careers, but neither one of them is a superstar. Pascal, Fred and OG are both closer to stardom than either of them. So, for that matter, are Norm Powell (46th), Nikola Jokic (41st) and Malcolm Brogdon (36th).

Superstars are very rare, and Masai is entirely correct to assume that, as a general rule, it's better to have a lot of good near-star-level assets on hand for when a superstar becomes available for trade or to entice them to come in free agency rather than to spend years tanking in order to have a shot at getting one. For all the talk of The Process, Philly only ended up getting Joel Embiid and Ben Simmons out of it, and neither one is necessarily The Man on a championship team (Embiid might be close), and they burned a whole lot of draft picks who ended up being basically nothing on the way to getting them.

It's one thing to say that Pascal and Fred and OG aren't going to become superstar level players - I think both of them top out at "second option next to a superstar" (which is hardly awful mind you). It's quite another, stupid thing to suggest that they're not really good players who can bring you into the second round of playoffs for years to come so long as the team is composed reasonably well, and everybody complaining that they've been "exposed" because of this year, which started with the Giannis gamble not paying off, then COVID, injuries, playing in Tampa, et cetera, is being silly. Pascal didn't become an all-NBA player because of a fluke. Fred wasn't a Sixth Man of the Year runner-up because of weird luck. They're really good players in the middle of a nightmare season.

It makes sense this year to tank, because there's a particularly good crop of rookies this year, including a lot of guys who have the physical tools to become superstars but maybe not all the skills, and because tanking this year won't affect our upcoming seasons - all we've done so far is trade away Norm for a better long-term option. So we tank, get as good a draft pick as possible, then reset next season now that we know what the team needs (GTJ addresses our scoring issues to an extent, but we still need more rebounding, playmaking and more scoring never goes amiss). This season isn't a playoffs season, but next year absolutely should be.

[S.R.]

A rookie contract is 4 years and then we can re-sign him as an RFA for another 4 years, typically. If we have young superstar and we can't build a contender around him within 8 years, then he should leave.

That said, everybody keeps saying that our strength is drafting & developing, right? So, if we truly believe drafting & developing are our unique competitive advantages, then maybe we should double down on that by getting more picks at a higher draft position. If we can turn an undrafted and 27th pick into the 2 core franchise players of playoff team..... what could we do with a pile of top 10 or top 5 picks?

A lot of recent superstars have left that first team at the end of that cycle without winning that chip there. "We have 8 years" - a young NBA star is almost never going to lead a team to a chip during ages 20-25. They have to develop into being a real winner. Reality is, you have a 1-3 year window at the tail end there before the guy bolts because he's tired of your mediocrity. Which is...very similar to the type of window you get just trading for somebody instead.

This is all moot. It takes a lot more to prompt a team to go into full tear down mode than what is commonly proposed in fan tank discussions. This is definitely one of those cases - a team that won a chip then was winning 70% of its games before COVID hit doesn't blow up a roster that's struggled during COVID. A fan may want it to, but point blank - it won't. So moot point.

Management will try with these guys for the next 2-3 years and see if they can get the roster to the next level, including via trade. If they spin their wheels for 2-3 years and don't get anywhere, they'll take it from there. Masai has demonstrated he's willing to trade core pieces, he's willing to fire COY's, he's not gun shy. Management will swing the bat when it's time, I'm not worried about that.

[planetmars]

A rookie contract is 4 years and then we can re-sign him as an RFA for another 4 years, typically. If we have young superstar and we can't build a contender around him within 8 years, then he should leave.

That said, everybody keeps saying that our strength is drafting & developing, right? So, if we truly believe drafting & developing are our unique competitive advantages, then maybe we should double down on that by getting more picks at a higher draft position. If we can turn an undrafted and 27th pick into the 2 core franchise players of playoff team..... what could we do with a pile of top 10 or top 5 picks?

The one counter point to the 8 year contract is that star players if fed up will ask to be traded and will get their wish.. so even if they sign a long term contract does not prohibit them from leaving anyway. We've seen that time and time again in the NBA.

Best to be the team that trades for the disgruntled star (like we did with Kawhi), then to develop them and have them leave kicking and screaming.

[Shredder]

Tankers belong in 2 sub categories, we got serious division in the ranks. Theres team #TampaTank, and a small extremist group called team #ScorchedEarth

It was funny to see the old thread that had people lining up to tank for wiggins or jabari. If that's who you end up with as the number 1 pick, I'll keep Siakam and Fred. (the devil you know is better than the devil you don't)

I think with the current salary structure, you have to maintain assets. Without assets you can't be over the cap (which most playoff teams are). Without assets you can't get a disgruntled superstar (like we did with Kawhi).

I'm not saying I would never trade Pascal or Fred, but I wouldn't do so when they are not playing their best. Look at Norm, how many people on this board, for years, were saying he was overpaid, a wash, he peaked. Then we went out and got Trent, a younger version of him, currently on a cheaper deal, and potentially on a cheaper deal next year.

I'm on team "Tampa Tank" suck for a year. Maintain your core. Hopefully get a high draft pick. Grab a centre via trade or free agency. Go back home. Play playoff basketball. If an opportunity presents itself, sweet move on from your core, but don't force it.

A team of
FVV, Malachi,
Trent (Green 1st round pick)
OG, Bembry
Pascal, Boucher, Yuta
New Centre, Birch

Is not a bad team at all. Getting a centre that can rebound and play good defence (I know easier said then done) would make us an excellent defensive team. We wouldn't have a true number 1 scorer, but we would have guys that can put the ball in the bucket. We would be a team that no one would want to play against. Good defence, crazy crowd, in a foreign city with lots of temptation the night before.

OKC's tank looks good on paper. We have yet to see what they do with all those picks (but with that many it would be hard to screw it up that bad). They didn't get there without assets, and those opportunities were not forced they practically fell in their lap.

I'll watch this team regardless, but man I've enjoyed playoff basketball.

[The Great One]

Hahaha...Raptors "resting" Lowry again tonight? Trent also out with an "ankle injury?" It's pretty obvious what they're doing.

I didn't think they'd rest Lowry against DeRozan's team. But they seem pretty serious about tanking this year.

[Demographic Shift]

And tonight, shocking I know.,its another full TAMPA TANK formation .
Again.
Rommel would be proud.

Out tonight for whatever reason that won't cause the Raptors PR guys to blush are Lowry...Trent.. Bembry and Freddy.
San Antonio is still in it in the West and DeMar never misses a chance to show well against the Raps.
Remember the Alamo as we pick high in the draft !!

Tonight we can use help from

Charlotte who gets Cleveland. Cleveland is as interested in winning as you are in putting your dick in a woodchipper but the Hornets are on the limp with LaMelo Ball, Gordon Hayward, Malik Monk, PJ Washington OUT and Rozier a game time decision. There is a chance as the saying goes. Watch Cleveland sub in Hartenstien and give him shooting reps throughout the game.
.
Chicago who gets the Magic. Chicago should get the W tonite over a team just playing out the string.

GSW goes into OKC. The Warriors have imploded. Wiseman is hurt and out for the year and Curry isn't what he once was. Also on the shelf tonight are Oubre and Eric Paschal. OKC already has a bazillion lottery level FRP's already and Raptor Summer League cut Lu Dort is coming off a 40 burger. So far OKC doesn't have anyone of their players listed as out.

Washington visits Sacramento. A no lose here. One of these two dogs with fleas is going to win.

[G__Deane]

Hahaha...Raptors "resting" Lowry again tonight? Trent also out with an "ankle injury?" It's pretty obvious what they're doing.

I didn't think they'd rest Lowry against DeRozan's team. But they seem pretty serious about tanking this year.

If I recall, Kyle was out the last time we played DD or was it the other way around?

[The Great One]

If I recall, Kyle was out the last time we played DD or was it the other way around?

Lowry was out with an injury.

[Kagemusha]

Hahaha...Raptors "resting" Lowry again tonight? Trent also out with an "ankle injury?" It's pretty obvious what they're doing.

I didn't think they'd rest Lowry against DeRozan's team. But they seem pretty serious about tanking this year.

Thank you Masai and Bobby for not allowing this season go to waste.

[NoPropsneeded]

Tankers belong in 2 sub categories, we got serious division in the ranks. Theres team #TampaTank, and a small extremist group called team #ScorchedEarth

Definitely on team tampa tank. My gut tells me we're getting an absolute stud in this draft.

[magoon]

Definitely on team tampa tank. My gut tells me we're getting an absolute stud in this draft.

I think Masai and Bobby have very specific plans for what they want to do at every draft pick, and those plans differ as the pick gets later. I'm also pretty sure they have a very specific idea of who they want, because they almost always do and it's not that often that they end up using their contingency plans.

[Puffer]

I picked up this avatar of Bob the Builder back in the McHappy tank argument days. Not changing now but can sit here relatively pleased with the #TampaTank.

[SkywalkerAC]

Even Matt and Jack didn't sound happy with the Bulls losing and the Raps winning.