Does this team need a trade to stay competitive?

[inthepaint]

Are people looking at how Pascal is being the first option as a Raptor? Because I believe he'd be much better than Wiggins or whoever else the Warriors have playing beside Steph, Klay and Draymond.

He'd be a better fit than wiggins there (they'd have more rebounding and stronger defence with Siakam), but imo not enough for them to include prospects and/or picks in addition to wiggins. That team is winning a lot as it is, they're not risking any moves until Klay is all re-integrated .

Siakam and Wiggins have both been putting up ~18.5ppg this season. Siakam's role there would be totally different and that might actually help him, but not sure he'd maintain his 18ppg there with fewer shots available.

[golden]

When was Masai ever connected to Wiggins? I honestly have never heard this before. I think our fan base is becoming more and more enamoured with the notion of a Canadian....

I don't want Wiggins and no he is not on the same level as Siakam. I am not saying they are miles apart and that Wiggins is the worst player in the NBA, but Wiggins for Siakam straight up is not even close to a fair trade. Also why are we just handing them the chip.

A bit dated (2015), but there it is. I wouldn't trade Wiggins for Pascal straight up either. The gamble is more about accumulating the extra young assets that fit Scottie's timeline. Wiggins is mainly for salary match purposes and a flyer.

Raptors GM vows to add Canadian, hints Wiggins

TORONTO — Masai Ujiri vowed there will be a Canadian on the Raptors during his tenure in Toronto, and said he plans to hire a scout to focus on Canadian talent.

He also hinted strongly that the player he most covets is rookie sensation Andrew Wiggins

https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/...hints-wiggins/

[KeonClark]

Wiggins better than siakam? Lol. Wiggins has finally found a niche on the best system playing beside the best shooter in history. Bring him here and see how he does as the first option on a mediocre team.

[TrueTorontoFan]

He'd be a better fit than wiggins there (they'd have more rebounding and stronger defence with Siakam), but imo not enough for them to include prospects and/or picks in addition to wiggins. That team is winning a lot as it is, they're not risking any moves until Klay is all re-integrated .

Siakam and Wiggins have both been putting up ~18.5ppg this season. Siakam's role there would be totally different and that might actually help him, but not sure he'd maintain his 18ppg there with fewer shots available.

Pretty sure he would do just fine given how much more open he would be in terms of having space to operate. This isn't even a question. Any one would look good next to Steph. That is why Steph is so good. He changes the whole geometry of the game.

[Limited Upside]

Pretty sure he would do just fine given how much more open he would be in terms of having space to operate. This isn't even a question. Any one would look good next to Steph. That is why Steph is so good. He changes the whole geometry of the game.

Siakam would be fantastic in GS. Wiggins would suck hot garbage in Toronto. Hard no.

[Kagemusha]

nerlens cant be traded till the 15th

i am interested to know why you think he can bounce back. he had a chance to play the role we want him to play in dallas

He had issues with Carlisle for some reason.
l admit he's a bit strange but he's still a solid rim protector and rebounder. Something that the Raps needed desperately.
Adding RJ will make the deal more acceptable.

[TrueTorontoFan]

He had issues with Carlisle for some reason.
l admit he's a bit strange but he's still a solid rim protector and rebounder. Something that the Raps needed desperately.
Adding RJ will make the deal more acceptable.

sure but still a lop sided deal. RJ has been alright this year but hasn't made the strides I thought he would make. He shoots free throws at a very low rate for not being a center. Is not an efficient scorer. Has done better defensively and I know he understands nurses systems but still.

Again it seems like lately we aren't valuing our players. In the past we may have overvalued guys. Now I think we are undervaluing guys. Nerlens would be great on this team given how thin we are at the center position and how bad we need rim protection. Again though.. giving up our best asset makes no sense. Also the knicks have randle. Siakam isn't truly a center... nor is randle. The trade isn't one that really makes the most amount of sense from either team except for the fact that the knicks or really the vast majority of teams would LOVE to have siakam. Especially if they aren't giving up great assets.

Siakam is not some distressed asset like Ben Simmons where the guy doesn't want to be here or participate. He is coming off an injury he has gotten better overall since the beginning of the season on both ends. He and Barnes have started to build a sort of chemistry. What is the real reason to trade siakam here ? Also why trade siakam for lesser players. I guess if you are thinking that Wiggins contract is up soon ... sure.. But why do we want cap space anyways when players don't come here. Unless you want to resign wiggins. A player who has had consistent questions about his work ethic. I never want to hear about a raptors player having problems putting in the work. That is why I love Barnes and Siakam so much. They are in the gym working on their game. Same with OG, same with Fred. Getting wiggins doesn't get you any better.

Regarding GSW's assets. Kuminga is really the prize here but still.... he is not going to be contributing huge minutes for another 2 years. GSW learned their lesson with Wiseman. You don't give a guy too much homework to start his career. Problem is if you trade Siakam you are forcing your guys to have too much homework right away. Although I think they would adjust. Also there is no guarantee that Kuminga would ever get there. Kuminga would be the real prize. GSW isn't going to trade away all their future assets when they don't need to unless its for a guy who is at the level of dame or beal. Why? Because they don't have to in order to compete and they can still bring their guys along. Wiseman is not as good as people seem to think. Not calling him a bust because that is silly but he doesn't have great ball IQ and I don't see him as the biggest prize. It would be a gamble on getting Kuminga and hoping that Kuminga can become a SG one day.

Also again if you are going to go that route then you should also be looking at trading Fred.




We want to go for it in 23/24 most likely. Any move needs to be towards that potential outcome. Trading for lesser players doesn't help us achieve that goal where your best remaining tradeable guy who you are willing to part with is GTJ. That alone won't be enough to go grab you one more piece.

For example a guy like Tatum or Brown (likely Tatum) may end up being available in the next year. If that happens and you traded Siakam, how do you go for a guy like that and package a deal together? It would have to be Siakam + picks and prospects but that is a good base for a trade with out needing another team or two to facilitate.







I just don't see a Siakam trade and I don't think Siakam is the problem. We know what the problem is. Call it an excuse if you want but the problem in my opinion is as follows:

• We lack the ability to put 48 minutes of solid center play on any given night. It is partly personnel, given that Birch is probably at best a lower tier starting center but a very solid 6th man guy. Additionally, precious isn't ready offensively right now for that level of play consistently. Lastly, these guys have been perpetually injured since the beginning of the season.
• Lack of chemistry, which is partially a result of being injured and ironically "hamstrung". We brought 7 new guys to the team after years and years of deep runs in the playoffs and lots of continuity. It will come but yeah. The top 5 guys have only played 52 total minutes all year. Not enough to evaluate.
• Injuries to our top guys. Siakam is coming back from a serious injury. OG went down soon after. Yuta also just came back. I am not saying Yuta is the most important guy but our bench play got significantly better when he came back.
• We have started to upgrade our bench slowly but this takes time to accumulate assets. We went from the guys we had on the bench last year to what we have now. You ultimately need a few first round pick level guys to ideally round out your bench and hopefully those guys are not at the end of the first round.

All of these things have contributed to where we are. I think things get better after xmas because OG will be back and we can start building continuity even if we always struggle with the center stuff.

I think there are trades to get us better or to consolidate assets but those are moves on the margins. Flynn is a good player but should be packaged in order for us to move on to options that fit better. Boucher likely doesn't have a long term future with us so we need to sort that out. I would hold on to dragic unless there is a decent deal on the table because he can be a solid vet OR he can be a guy who potentially will be a good salary filler in a trade.

[The Great One]

We've officially lost the plot here...

The Warriors would love to get Siakam for a Wiggins-centric deal. The Raptors would not even consider it.

Someone doesn't watch Warriors games....

[The Great One]

You seem focused on trading away siakam so convince me why is wiggins a better overall player than siakam?

All you need to do is watch Warriors games.

[TrueTorontoFan]

All you need to do is watch Warriors games.

I have, the system plays a big role. That isn't convincing me enough that he is better. Again I am open to a conversation about it but I don't see the evidence. If anything Siakam would look even better than Wiggins. I mean I could even see the argument for Simmons. I think there are some real reasons to not do the simmons for siakam swap but yeah.

[KeonClark]

I have, the system plays a big role. That isn't convincing me enough that he is better. Again I am open to a conversation about it but I don't see the evidence. If anything Siakam would look even better than Wiggins. I mean I could even see the argument for Simmons. I think there are some real reasons to not do the simmons for siakam swap but yeah.

Warriors would swap wiggins for siakam before you could even finish the question.

Remember how Siakam used to get 10 points a night just outrunning everyone on fast breaks and getting go ahead passes from Lowry? Imagine how dangerous he would be using his motor with Dray feeding outlets. A lineup with Dray-Siakam frontcourt, Klay-Curry backcourt has so much different little wrinkles and fun things they could do its terrifying. That's a 73-9 type team again

[TrueTorontoFan]

Are people looking at how Pascal is being the first option as a Raptor? Because I believe he'd be much better than Wiggins or whoever else the Warriors have playing beside Steph, Klay and Draymond.

Good question, likely yes. That said, its a moot point we already established before that pascal likely isn't a number one guy but there is nothing wrong with him as a stop gap until Scottie or OG step into that role/

You are correct.

[chris]

i agree with trex. pascal is better than wiggins in a vacuum, but not by a ton and i think wiggins is a slightly better fit for what the warriors need than pascal is. a lot of what pascal brings (positional versatility on defense, ballhandling, playmaking) is redundant to draymond's skillset, who does it better. pascal and wiggins are about a wash on defense and on offense in transition and isolation. but wiggins is a better shooter which is more valuable to a team centered around draymond and steph than what pascal brings, imo.

they'd still be awesome with siakam though, and maybe siakam's 3 pt percentage would take a huge leap playing alongside steph.

[MixxAOR]

i agree with trex. pascal is better than wiggins in a vacuum, but not by a ton and i think wiggins is a slightly better fit for what the warriors need than pascal is. a lot of what pascal brings (positional versatility on defense, ballhandling, playmaking) is redundant to draymond's skillset, who does it better. pascal and wiggins are about a wash on defense and on offense in transition and isolation. but wiggins is a better shooter which is more valuable to a team centered around draymond and steph than what pascal brings, imo.

they'd still be awesome with siakam though, and maybe siakam's 3 pt percentage would take a huge leap playing alongside steph.

we can reverse that on Wiggins too. He would be terrible in Siakam's role with Raptors. Rudy Gay-esque if you will.

Wiggins is bad version of OG but with paycheque of Siakam

[chris]

we can reverse that on Wiggins too. He would be terrible in Siakam's role with Raptors. Rudy Gay-esque if you will.

Wiggins is bad version of OG but with paycheque of Siakam

yeah i don't disagree that he's in a perfect role for him in golden state, and would look worse on a team more reliant on him for halfcourt offense.

i disagree that he's "a bad version of OG"... he's not as good a defender (although not too far off) and not as good a shooter as OG, he's probably a little better at creating his own shot (though OG is improving at this, awkward as it looks at times).

the paycheck is what it is. the warriors don't give a fuck. it's less of an albatross than it was in minnesota obviously and maybe even a neutral asset now