Does this team need a trade to stay competitive?

[DanH]

Once you start adding players to the deal, it becomes more complex. Do the Pacers have any roster spots? Do they have to include a player to take on 2 additional players? I don't think they can surpass 15 players even if they buyout Dragic right?

I outlined what it would need to be before I think (although maybe just on twitter, not here): Dragic, Precious, Flynn for Turner, Craig and a minimum guy (give me Brissett!). That lets both teams thread the needle on the tax (both are just under the line so you need to match pretty closely, more closely than you would usually need to to make the trade math work), and maintain their roster spot status.

[golden]

Never too old to add new tricks in the off-season

[DanH]

This is the limiting factor I think… if Masai and Bobby are saving their chips for a real star (sorry Myles) then they may not want to outbid other teams for Turner. And I suspect a lot of teams would love to have Turner, guy is basically the perfect modern big aside from the spotty rebounding.

Like if the Hornets go hard at him then I don’t know if we will choose to get into a bidding war.

That said… what are the odds we can get a real star without trading a piece of the core? Slim to nil I would think. So there’s a lot to weigh.

Yeah, but I think they'd rather have the option to trade a core piece for that star (along with draft assets) rather than having the chance but not having the assets if that opportunity comes along.

I agree we won't get into a bidding war. But there may not be one. Centres are often undervalued.

[golden]

Lol role cards, it’s the ghost of Dwane Casey everybody

People think we're joking here, Scrap. Nope.

It's important for NBA teams to communicate. Players need to know what coaches expect of them, and the coaches need to know that the players are all on the same page. And Toronto Raptors coach Dwane Casey has a system he uses to make sure his team's get off to a good start.

According to the Toronto Sun, Casey hands out "expectation cards" to his players before the start of each season. On those cards, Casey delineates what the coaching staff expects from a given player, his strengths in the eyes of the organization and how they fit into the overall structure.

Each player gets three copies of the card -- one for his agent, one for a loved one, and one for his locker. The redundancy protects against players claiming they lost their expectation card and are unclear about their roles.

Casey told the Sun that the cards can be amended as the team's situation changes, but that the key is to put things down in writing so that everyone understands each other.

"We had role cards in Minnesota (where he had his first stint as an NBA head coach), we did it in Seattle (where he worked for years as an assistant under George Karl and then alongside Nate McMillan), did it in Dallas (under Rick Carlisle). Everywhere I’ve gone, we’ve done it," Casey explained this week.

Casey said they started the process, but will wait until just before the start of the season “to get a true picture, to see what guys really can do and can’t do."

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nb...-roles-on-them

[Yuri Gagarin]

Agree but why are C’s undervalued? As we’ve seen its not easy to get a QUALITY C. Each draft over the past several years seems like about 2 true C’s drafted in the first round.

[inthepaint]

This is the limiting factor I think… if Masai and Bobby are saving their chips for a real star (sorry Myles) then they may not want to outbid other teams for Turner. And I suspect a lot of teams would love to have Turner, guy is basically the perfect modern big aside from the spotty rebounding.

Like if the Hornets go hard at him then I don’t know if we will choose to get into a bidding war.

That said… what are the odds we can get a real star without trading a piece of the core? Slim to nil I would think. So there’s a lot to weigh.

The counter to the "saving for a real star' approach is that we're probably not at the stage where one would actually put us in real contention. I'd say we gotta first get to the level of the Lowry-Derozan prime years here (50+ wins routinely, top 3 seed etc..), then gear up for the final piece.

Right now it's drafting, developing and incremental trades to first get to that level. This potential Turner trade would fit that bill because he would improve the team without us having to give up the farm, would fill a position of need, and he's also young enough to be within his prime when our contention window re-opens.

Someone mentioned his value was like that of Serge when we got him from Orlando, and I agree. At the time we had a hole at the PF position, he filled it, helped maintain the team at the top of the conference, and allowed us to have the foundation to make a move for a bigger piece. Turner feels the same, both in terms of potential value/cost and also impact on the team (except now our hole is at C).

[TrueTorontoFan]

Agree but why are C’s undervalued? As we’ve seen its not easy to get a QUALITY C. Each draft over the past several years seems like about 2 true C’s drafted in the first round.

because the top top top players haven't been centers for a LONG time and the game has changed. The value of the position is still there but slow plodding guys became a thing of the past very quickly.

[KeonClark]

The counter to the "saving for a real star' approach is that we're probably not at the stage where one would actually put us in real contention. I'd say we gotta first get to the level of the Lowry-Derozan prime years here (50+ wins routinely, top 3 seed etc..), then gear up for the final piece.

Right now it's drafting, developing and incremental trades to first get to that level. This potential Turner trade would fit that bill because he would improve the team without us having to give up the farm, would fill a position of need, and he's also young enough to be within his prime when our contention window re-opens.

Someone mentioned his value was like that of Serge when we got him from Orlando, and I agree. At the time we had a hole at the PF position, he filled it, helped maintain the team at the top of the conference, and allowed us to have the foundation to make a move for a bigger piece. Turner feels the same, both in terms of potential value/cost and also impact on the team (except now our hole is at C).

And then also, we don't really lose the assets to possibly acquire a star, because now turner becomes one of the assets that could eventually be flipped down the road.

My only untouchables for turner are the starters and unprotected firsts. Those are the REAL assets for star hunting. Except scottie. He's just straight up untouchable in any deal.

[KeonClark]

because the top top top players haven't been centers for a LONG time and the game has changed. The value of the position is still there but slow plodding guys became a thing of the past very quickly.

ehh, I don't buy it. Jokic is top 5 all world and embiid is top 10. Then you got gobert, towns, bam somewhere in your top 30.
AD is a big too he just doesn't think he is.

The death of the center has been greatly exaggerated.

[MixxAOR]

[golden]

The counter to the "saving for a real star' approach is that we're probably not at the stage where one would actually put us in real contention. I'd say we gotta first get to the level of the Lowry-Derozan prime years here (50+ wins routinely, top 3 seed etc..), then gear up for the final piece.

Right now it's drafting, developing and incremental trades to first get to that level. This potential Turner trade would fit that bill because he would improve the team without us having to give up the farm, would fill a position of need, and he's also young enough to be within his prime when our contention window re-opens.

Someone mentioned his value was like that of Serge when we got him from Orlando, and I agree. At the time we had a hole at the PF position, he filled it, helped maintain the team at the top of the conference, and allowed us to have the foundation to make a move for a bigger piece. Turner feels the same, both in terms of potential value/cost and also impact on the team (except now our hole is at C).

We're at the bottom of the conference now, though. That's a very different type of calculus..... where other options, like tanking and taking on deadweight salary from other teams, comes into play. I mean, I would be disgusted to see us go Hinkie or Presti mode, but the point is that Myles Turner would be coming into a completely different situation than Serge.

Would getting Turner help us "maintain" the 7 to 11 seed? That's the worst place to be in the NBA, i.e., No Man's Land.

[A.I]

ehh, I don't buy it. Jokic is top 5 all world and embiid is top 10. Then you got gobert, towns, bam somewhere in your top 30.
AD is a big too he just doesn't think he is.

The death of the center has been greatly exaggerated.

That isn't why they are undervalued. Its more because you can win with an average center who only rebounds and defends or in Lopez's case, shoots 3s and defends. Basically a C with a specific and limited role.

A team with a superstar C hasn't won in a long time.

[A.I]

He basically asked for a trade lol.

Nurse will give him his opportunities for a larger offensive role. He has been doing it with Precious.

I think Turner is capable of more. On the Pacers, he is basically the other half of Sabonis. Sabonis is the offensive big, Turner takes care of his defensive deficiencies as best he can.

[Jclaw]

That isn't why they are undervalued. Its more because you can win with an average center who only rebounds and defends or in Lopez's case, shoots 3s and defends. Basically a C with a specific and limited role.

A team with a superstar C hasn't won in a long time.

***Whispers****not since the year before last

[KeonClark]