The Raptors and the 2015 Draft

[psrs1]

Amen. I agree. We're the 5th best team in the East next year at best. I think we need to use our current all stars to maximize the return right now. Meaning draft picks. Masai's gotta be ballsy, but im fearful he'll make minor changes and our team will stay the relatively the same.

I agree. I don't see anyone we get in draft seeing any minutes except garbage time minutes. MU will keep core intact.

[Chr1s1anL]

Draftexpress latest Mock Draft

Raptors select Tyus Jones


The Raptors have solid depth at the point guard position with Kyle Lowry and Greivis Vasquez in the fold, but wouldn't hesitate to draft Tyus Jones if they felt he's the best player available at their pick. They would have taken Tyler Ennis last year if he wasn't drafted one pick before them, and will likely give Jones a serious look if he drops to them.

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3cgOPN7Qj
http://www.draftexpress.com

[white men can't jump]

Out of curiosity, what players would you point to who fell to the bottom half of the draft due to questionable character only to excel and become the type of all-star prospect you hope for?

God...I'm not going to go look into hundreds of draft profiles to find such guys.

I also said near all-star or all-star...as in, ideally a starting-caliber player or one of your best 4 or 5 players.

Are we also going to look at how many high character guys never became meaningful contributors? Or careers fizzled out?

How about we focus on the angle of "potential" as being the most important consideration for choosing players? And combine that with the fact that character is always important. It doesn't matter if you've got star potential or 8th man potential, if you don't have good character you won't last in the league.

Lets look at maybe the most obvious example of the choice a team faces in terms of making "safe" pick vs. a riskier pick...

Draft year: 2008. Picks 23(Utah) and 24(OKC).
-Utah picked Koufos. He was a pretty safe pick. Solid college big man with good fundamentals. Low-risk as he projected to at least be a backup C. Now fitting exactly into that projection as a decent backup C in this league.
-OKC picked Ibaka. Riskier pick. Oozing physical potential but still raw. Lots of question as to whether he would fulfill that potential by improving his mental game and adding enough skill to be more than just an athletic role player. No real worries about whether he was a "good guy", but you can be a good guy and lack the character traits needed to maximize your potential. Now one of the best 2-way big men in the league.
What kind of move would you rather the organization gamble on?

Or to throw another name from the same draft class out there....DeAndre Jordan. 35th pick. Here's a snippet from his old Draftexpress page...

All things considered, we’re talking about possibly the biggest high-risk, high reward prospect in this draft. Jordan is the type of player who is capable of getting a GM fired for taking him too early, but he’s also capable of getting a GM fired for deciding to pass on him. What it will probably boil down to at the end of the day is the work ethic and drive Jordan possesses to get better over the next few years. The early returns we’re hearing in this area from scouts who have been out to watch him practice and play have not been the most encouraging regarding his maturity-level, mentality and all-around intangibles, though. The lack of improvement he’s shown throughout his freshman season has been slightly concerning too, but to his credit, he’s a player who needs to have a great point guard next to him to create shots for him, and A&M doesn’t have anything close to that on their roster right now. According to numerous sources, Jordan is not getting along that well with his coaching staff, and will almost certainly be entering the draft once the season is over.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3cgMBLWi0
http://www.draftexpress.com

Basically points out how risky he is exactly because of character concerns. And now he's one of the best defensive bigs in the game. Now, I'll concede it's obviously more palatable to gamble on 2nd rounders, but the crux of the strategy is the same, because lots of teams also try to lock down solid role players with those picks, aiming for character. Joey Dorsey went 2 spots ahead (to Portland) of Jordan for exactly that reason. Dorsey was a defence-first C prospect much like Jordan, but undersized and with little potential to get better....but no one questioned his intangibles/character. He just ended up being a journeyman, in and out of the league over the years.

So that's twice in the same draft where teams went with a safe pick and then shortly after other teams went for home run picks. The home run picks worked out far better than the safe picks. Doesn't mean they always will, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying I much prefer that strategy and would be happy if our staff is swinging for the fences. Again, we'll see if they can knock any out of the park. If they can properly judge character AND create an environment that's good for development.

*And again, doesn't mean I expect them to take the higher potential guy every time. But I do expect if they pass on such a guy (say, Wood this year), it's because they're convinced he can't capitalize on his potential. And then they'll be judged badly if they end up being wrong. ...I really just feel like I'm stating the obvious here in general.

[magoon]

SI's newest mock has Porzingis rising to 4, Mudiay dropping to 7, and the Raps drafting Kelly Oubre at 20.

Although I want us to trade for a lottery pick this year - if we got Oubre at 20, that would be a fine steal.

[Cody73]

Today's workouts:

G - Norman Powell, G - Rashad Vaughn, F - Duje Dukan, F - Christian Wood, F - Darion Atkins and F - Michale Kyser

Vaughn, Powell and Wood are three top candidates for that 20th pick. I included them in my draft prep thread.

Norman Powell, SG, 21 years old, 43rd in DX Top 100
Measurements: 6'4", 215 lbs, 6'11" wingspan, 41" max vert
Scouting report:
Athleticism: Incredible athlete, amazing leaping ability and strength for a guard. Great length, if short for his position. Very quick first step.
Offence: First and foremost a slasher. Uses his athleticism to drive head first into the defence, and is very effective playing above the rim even in traffic. Very poor shooter, poor mechanics, tends to hesitate on his jumper. Gets tunnel vision when he drives, poor passing in general. Also not a great ball handler.
Defence: Has all the tools but is only an average defender. Tends to gamble too much, and is only a decent rebounder considering his physical attributes. Heavy workload offensively may play into it as he was a very good defender in previous years.

Rashad Vaughn, SG, 18 years old, 45th in DX Top 100
Measurements: 6'5", 199 lbs, 6'7" wingspan, 34" max vert
Scouting report:
Athleticism: Smooth athlete, nothing spectacular. Not explosive, average quickness. Good strength.
Offence: Very good shooter (38% from 3) and from all over the floor. Can create his own shot, shoot off screens and spot up equally effectively. Very good at creating space for midrange jumpers. Has strength to finish in the lane and draws fouls well, and has a nice floater. Can score every which way but loose, rare for such a young player. That said, very poor shot selection - takes many tough shots instead of passing, fadeaways and contested jumpers. Poor passing vision on the rare occasion he does look for a teammate. Not a great ball handler, tends to dribble in straight line drives, depending on his strength to bully past opponents, and his step back to get himself open shots.
Defence: Another guy who has all the tools but not the mentality. Part of a terrible defensive team, so coaching might play into it, but was often blown by, not in a proper stance, lacked awareness.
Other: Questions about whether he can play a less selfish game, or be more disciplined defensively. But at his age, someone will take a swing at him, because if you can correct his shot selection and defensive focus, he's much better than the position he'll be drafted at. Said to have a great work ethic, but also sees himself as a star even if his performance doesn't quite line up with that view.

Christian Wood, PF, 19 years old, 25th in DX Top 100
Measurements: 6'11", 216 lbs, 7'3" wingspan, no max vert data
Scouting report:
Athleticism: Tall and long, but thin right now. Looks like he'll fill out with time though. Very fluid and agile for a big man, can get off the ground effortlessly.
Offence: DX pegs him as "uniquely versatile." Good transition runner, even capable of dribbling up his own defensive rebound. Very good in PnR as the roll man, can go up and get lobs and finishes very well in traffic. Has a face up game, with a quick first step. Good shooter (73% from the free throw line) and has range out to the three point line (though inconsistent from there for now, due to some mechanics that need cleaning up), so his face up game has a good foundation, allowing him to attack closeouts. Currently lacks a real post up game, due to lack of strength, but with added weight seems to have a touch around the basket that would lend itself to that skill.
Defence: Inconsistent defender. Has the length and quickness to range out on the perimeter, contesting shots, or to hedge and recover to his man to disrupt screen actions. Tremendous shot blocker, with over 3 per 40 minutes, even though he played beside an even better rim protector at C. Very good rebounder, particularly on the defensive end. Tends to get pushed around on the block by bigger players and get beat by them sometimes for rebounds. Also has very little discipline defensively - tries to block everything, leaves his feet when he shouldn't. Gets lost on defensive coverages in the pick and roll, getting caught in no man's land between his man and the ball handler. Can be on and off effort wise - often won't have a second effort on a play, and can get beat in transition if the offensive play goes poorly.
Other: Needs to bulk up, which would address a lot of questions. But also needs some serious maturing, as his focus and effort are questionable. His shot selection on offence is also a concern - his decision making is pretty much to shoot when he has the ball, and when he does look to pass he tends to turn it over.

Duje Dukan there's pretty much no info on, besides being a 23 year old power forward from Croatia who played in the NCAA last year and appeared to do very little in his limited floor time except shoot poorly. Unranked in DX's top 100.

Darion Atkins is a 22 year old PF, 6'8", 240 lbs, 7'2" wingspan. Good strength and length makes up for his height. Poor free throw shooter (50%), OK around the rim. Good rebounder and solid rim protector. Ranks 86th in DX's top 100.

Michale Kyser is another 23 year old PF with almost no info. Shoots well inside (60% FG%), but poorly from the line (60% as well), OK rebounder and a very good shot blocker. Unranked in DX's top 100.

Just like last time, 3 real prospects and 3 redshirts, this time with no Canadian kids.

Dan, can I see you opinion on Luwawu? I'd like to know if you think he's a reach at 20 or not.

[ceez]

Draftexpress latest Mock Draft

Raptors select Tyus Jones


The Raptors have solid depth at the point guard position with Kyle Lowry and Greivis Vasquez in the fold, but wouldn't hesitate to draft Tyus Jones if they felt he's the best player available at their pick. They would have taken Tyler Ennis last year if he wasn't drafted one pick before them, and will likely give Jones a serious look if he drops to them.

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz3cgOPN7Qj
http://www.draftexpress.com

not a tyus jones fan at all. i actually prefer quinn cook.

[Bear]

Towns has a better #handle4life than Demar, as you can see in this video. The hand-eye coordination is ridiculous when you consider Towns' size. Sabonis was smooth and agile for the gigantic human he was, but I'd say Towns is equally as agile, yet more explosive and laterally quicker.




http://www.businessinsider.com/karl-...orkouts-2015-6

A ton of hype this time of year, but still....

good thing we got the 20th!

[FromDeep]

God...I'm not going to go look into hundreds of draft profiles to find such guys.

I also said near all-star or all-star...as in, ideally a starting-caliber player or one of your best 4 or 5 players.

Are we also going to look at how many high character guys never became meaningful contributors? Or careers fizzled out?

How about we focus on the angle of "potential" as being the most important consideration for choosing players? And combine that with the fact that character is always important. It doesn't matter if you've got star potential or 8th man potential, if you don't have good character you won't last in the league.

Lets look at maybe the most obvious example of the choice a team faces in terms of making "safe" pick vs. a riskier pick...

Draft year: 2008. Picks 23(Utah) and 24(OKC).
-Utah picked Koufos. He was a pretty safe pick. Solid college big man with good fundamentals. Low-risk as he projected to at least be a backup C. Now fitting exactly into that projection as a decent backup C in this league.
-OKC picked Ibaka. Riskier pick. Oozing physical potential but still raw. Lots of question as to whether he would fulfill that potential by improving his mental game and adding enough skill to be more than just an athletic role player. No real worries about whether he was a "good guy", but you can be a good guy and lack the character traits needed to maximize your potential. Now one of the best 2-way big men in the league.
What kind of move would you rather the organization gamble on?

Or to throw another name from the same draft class out there....DeAndre Jordan. 35th pick. Here's a snippet from his old Draftexpress page...



Basically points out how risky he is exactly because of character concerns. And now he's one of the best defensive bigs in the game. Now, I'll concede it's obviously more palatable to gamble on 2nd rounders, but the crux of the strategy is the same, because lots of teams also try to lock down solid role players with those picks, aiming for character. Joey Dorsey went 2 spots ahead (to Portland) of Jordan for exactly that reason. Dorsey was a defence-first C prospect much like Jordan, but undersized and with little potential to get better....but no one questioned his intangibles/character. He just ended up being a journeyman, in and out of the league over the years.

So that's twice in the same draft where teams went with a safe pick and then shortly after other teams went for home run picks. The home run picks worked out far better than the safe picks. Doesn't mean they always will, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying I much prefer that strategy and would be happy if our staff is swinging for the fences. Again, we'll see if they can knock any out of the park. If they can properly judge character AND create an environment that's good for development.

*And again, doesn't mean I expect them to take the higher potential guy every time. But I do expect if they pass on such a guy (say, Wood this year), it's because they're convinced he can't capitalize on his potential. And then they'll be judged badly if they end up being wrong. ...I really just feel like I'm stating the obvious here in general.

- There is a big difference between being an all-star or near-all-star and being one of the 150 "starting-caliber" players in the league.

The Ibaka vs. Koufos example doesn't apply to what the exchange has been about this whole time - lack of character.

And, yeah, Deandre was, justifiably so, a second round pick who took a long time to develop. I have no qualms with swinging for the fences in the second round.

Further still, that 2009 draft saw Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, JaVale McGee and J.J. Hickson, go 2, 14, 18, 19 respectively... but damn, those guys have a lot of potential...

[Chr1s1anL]

not a tyus jones fan at all. i actually prefer quinn cook.

+1 except the Quin Cook part

[Primer]

Today's workouts:

Norman Powell, SG, 21 years old, 43rd in DX Top 100
Measurements: 6'4", 215 lbs, 6'11" wingspan, 41" max vert
Scouting report:
Athleticism: Incredible athlete, amazing leaping ability and strength for a guard. Great length, if short for his position. Very quick first step.
Offence: First and foremost a slasher. Uses his athleticism to drive head first into the defence, and is very effective playing above the rim even in traffic. Very poor shooter, poor mechanics, tends to hesitate on his jumper. Gets tunnel vision when he drives, poor passing in general. Also not a great ball handler.
Defence: Has all the tools but is only an average defender. Tends to gamble too much, and is only a decent rebounder considering his physical attributes. Heavy workload offensively may play into it as he was a very good defender in previous years.

Powell sounds an awful lot like Derozan.

[Bear]

Powell sounds an awful lot like Derozan.

a bit more athletic, a little shorter, but yeah.

[DanH]

Dan, can I see you opinion on Luwawu? I'd like to know if you think he's a reach at 20 or not.

Luwawu is almost certainly a reach at 20, but so was Bruno, and home run swings tend to be.

[raptors999]

Luwawu is almost certainly a reach at 20, but so was Bruno, and home run swings tend to be.

Luwawu is a reach while on everybodies radar, Bruno might have gone higher if scouted or invited in

[white men can't jump]

- There is a big difference between being an all-star or near-all-star and being one of the 150 "starting-caliber" players in the league.

The Ibaka vs. Koufos example doesn't apply to what the exchange has been about this whole time - lack of character.

And, yeah, Deandre was, justifiably so, a second round pick who took a long time to develop. I have no qualms with swinging for the fences in the second round.

Further still, that 2009 draft saw Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph, JaVale McGee and J.J. Hickson, go 2, 14, 18, 19 respectively... but damn, those guys have a lot of potential...

Potential is still way harder to lock down though. All those guys fizzled out...but the role players in the later parts of the draft aren't guys you struggle to find by other means....There are guys like Courtney Lee, Koufos, Darrell Arthur, etc. readily available pretty much every year in free agency. And at prices that are not significantly more than rookie deals.


Let me ask this question:

Would you be upset if they picked Wood because he may have character concerns?

In the end doesn't it just come back to trusting whether your front office knows how to judge character and make the risky pick when it's called for? Wood is by all accounts a lottery talent. He's also really young despite being a sophomore. You don't often have a chance to nab such a talent outside the lottery. Would you want them to actively avoid him because there are concerns that his rawness may be more deeply rooted than him simply being a young kid who needs to grow up physically and mentally (true for about 99% of 19 year olds)?

Again, that's what your execs are supposed to judge. I like them willing to gamble. If they're right, the reward is huge. If they're wrong and the cost was not getting a role player, you can go get that in free agency.

And on the "starting-caliber" thing, maybe I should've specified on a good team. There are 80 starters from playoff teams. And some of them might be bench players on different teams, while some starters on bad teams could start on good teams. So I'd look at it as more of a "top 80" thing than "top 150". But that's pretty subjective.

[DanH]

Luwawu actually almost made the cut for my draft prep posts, as DX has him ranked 31st. But they also have him projected to be drafted next year and not this one for some reason (even though in the reports I can find he has said he is coming out for this year's draft).

Timothe Luwawu, SG, 20 years old, 31st in DX Top 100
Measurements: 6'7", 205 lbs, no measurements.
Scouting report:
Athleticism: Long arms, big hands, strong frame, very good athleticism.
Offence: Very promising offensive game. Solid shooter from all over the floor, including from 3, quick first step, good driver and good in transition, though could use improvement in his handles for shot creation. Good passer, very unselfish. Gets to the line well, knocks down about 80%. Struggles to finish inside but projects to be able to add strength which should help. Also struggles shooting off the dribble.
Defence: Very good defender - great instincts, good quickness, closes out well without losing control. Defends 4 positions in the French league, though that probably scales to both wing slots in the NBA. Solid rebounder for his size. Generates lots of steals, which is a good projection to the NBA.
Other: Barely played above the French junior league until this past season. Limited experience, but high upside. Considered a pretty good lock for a 3+D guy at the 2. But with lots of upside due to his athleticism and developing handles/strength.

Yeesh, I hate that I missed this guy the first time through. Add him to my short list at 20. Bruno at the 3 and Luwawu at the 2?