Where is the demar appreciation day???????????????

[A.I]

Vince is always going to be a tough sell for a lot of fans. We see stars leave teams all the time now kicking and screaming. Harden just did it twice. Simmons in Philly. Davis in New Orleans. Kawhi in San Antonio (which is still weird). Carmelo in Denver. Howard in Orlando. So there is a bit less of a sting.

But Vince felt like the first.. and it felt like he was taking a shit on the franchise as he left. It was quite a tough time to be a Raptor fan then.

I get why he would want to leave, but it could have gone a lot better. I appreciate the way George left OKC to get to LA for example.

I don't like the idea of honouring someone that didn't honour his team and the fans that cheered for him on the way out.


Bosh never really cared about Toronto. Jose and Mo Pete were the dudes that propped up TO and they were role players. That's why I appreciate guys like DeMar, Fred and Pascal. They weren't just stars and leaders, but guys that returned the love to the team and the city. That's someone you honour.

The ring thing doesn't sway me so much. The ring is pretty fluky. If we never won a chip in 2019, I'd still want to retire Kyle's jersey.

I only say Vince because he came to the team when it was still a pretty new franchise and Vince was electrifying and a popular player around the league. I get why he shouldn't have his jersey retired. He falls in the middle of Kyle/Derozan and Bosh for me.

Bosh was a great player here, but he was kind of just there...the team and the front office sucked and he eventually left.

Derozan took over after that, in came Masai and Kyle and the franchise turned itself around.

I think Kyle gets his jersey retired without the ring too, but the ring propelled him past Derozan in my eyes.

[KeonClark]

I only say Vince because he came to the team when it was still a pretty new franchise and Vince was electrifying and a popular player around the league. I get why he shouldn't have his jersey retired. He falls in the middle of Kyle/Derozan and Bosh for me.

Bosh was a great player here, but he was kind of just there...the team and the front office sucked and he eventually left.

Derozan took over after that, in came Masai and Kyle and the franchise turned itself around.

I think Kyle gets his jersey retired without the ring too, but the ring propelled him past Derozan in my eyes.

Derozan and Kawhi will always have a special place here for different reasons.

Kyle will always have a special place here for both reasons.

[saints91]

Where is da Atlanta Hawks game thread???????????????????????????????

I'm tight on time today, but I'll try to throw something together right now.

[slaw]

I used to be against retiring DeMar's jersey. But have warmed up to it a bit since Kyle Lowry Day. I think there has to be a standard set though. Like a barometer that others will have to cross in order to get in. Like if he gets it than I think Fred and Pascal should as well eventually.

You have to be a great ambassador for the franchise. But also put up all-star/all-nba numbers. Fred and Pascal pass that sniff test for me. They need a bit more time. Maybe another all-star or two for each will do it.

Vince and Chris didn't leave a good mark on the franchise with the way they all left. And that's a tough thing to celebrate for me. Vince can get his jersey retired in any of the other arenas he played in. He screwed up his shot at a Vince Carter Day here in Toronto. I'm sure he'll be fine. Don't really need to say too much about Chris. Was a great player here, but was never really a true ambassador. Plus his teams sucked, and I think he was embarrassed to play here quite frankly.

Outside of Lowry, there is no real sure thing in my view. Derozan is a maybe. Bosh absolutely not. VC would be a hard no for me but I understand there are a lot of people who think what he did for basketball in Canada should be acknowledged.

I'm not sure you need a bright line test but it definitely needs to be a high bar or else it doesn't mean anything. As you say, it's some combination of production, success, role with the organization, dealings in the community, etc., and it has to all be sustained over many years.

[The Claw Reborn]

Let the Claw Reborn speak ….

Vince - yes to jersey retirement

Derozan - yes to jersey retirement but absolutely NO to statue, are you fkn kidding me

Bosh - does not deserve any kind of recognition. The real No.4 is only 20 years old.

Siakam/ Van Vleet - jersey retirement

Kawhi - jersey retirement

Kyle Lowry - jersey retirement/ STATUE !

[G__Deane]

Derozan and Kawhi will always have a special place here for different reasons.

Kyle will always have a special place here for both reasons.

Well put.

[G__Deane]

Let the Claw Reborn speak ….

Vince - yes to jersey retirement

Derozan - yes to jersey retirement but absolutely NO to statue, are you fkn kidding me

Bosh - does not deserve any kind of recognition. The real No.4 is only 20 years old.

Siakam/ Van Vleet - jersey retirement

Kawhi - jersey retirement

Kyle Lowry - jersey retirement/ STATUE !

jmo but your line for jersey retirement is way too low. It has to be for all time greats, not the really goods for their time here.
Kyle is the only jersey I'd retire here right now, other's can go to some wall of fame thing. Pascal/Fred TBD.

And I think the statue thing is kinda stupid really and believe that that will become more obvious as the years roll on.
That's for Michael Jordan's, Gretzky, Orr etc. Greats of the game, not just a team. It reeks of corporate attention seeking with a side order of Kyle Lowry replica jerseys now on sale....

I mean, Philadelphia actually has a statue of a fictional movie character .... that Stallone commissioned himself


Retire Kyle's jersey and give DeMar a spot on the wall of fame. Put Vince *shudder* up there first if you must, I'd never retire his jersey.

[Kagemusha]

Demar didn't leave in disgrace like those two. Carter wanted out because management was so inept at the time. Bosh wanted out to go be third banana behind Lebron and Wade. Demar wanted to stay and was distraught that we traded him. He's far more deserving of appreciation than either, but especially more than Bosh.

Vince (and TMac) contributed immensely to the early success and popularity of the Raptors. You can never write the team's history without mentioning his name.
The point I was trying to make in that comparison was that all of them were a huge part of the team's history, who didn't win a ring for the team.

[G__Deane]

Vince is always going to be a tough sell for a lot of fans. We see stars leave teams all the time now kicking and screaming. Harden just did it twice. Simmons in Philly. Davis in New Orleans. Kawhi in San Antonio (which is still weird). Carmelo in Denver. Howard in Orlando. So there is a bit less of a sting.

But Vince felt like the first.. and it felt like he was taking a shit on the franchise as he left. It was quite a tough time to be a Raptor fan then.

I get why he would want to leave, but it could have gone a lot better. I appreciate the way George left OKC to get to LA for example.

I don't like the idea of honouring someone that didn't honour his team and the fans that cheered for him on the way out.

I don't understand how you can think George left OKC in any kind of good way.
He had a valid contract that he had signed only one year earlier, forcing OKC to mold their team/budget in a certain way to accommodate his contract.

Then Kawhi came calling through the back door after telling famous tamperer and weirdo Steve Ballmer that he wouldn't jettison Toronto unless they could bring another superstar along for the ride, valid contract or not, just tell the team you want out!

"If there is any consolation for Thunder fans, George acknowledged that if not for Leonard suggesting the two play together, he would’ve likely stayed in Oklahoma City because of “the bond and loyalty he felt to Westbrook and the Thunder” even after just one season."

Ballmer, Kawhi and PG were all bush in this dirty transaction. Along with lebron the other famous manipulator, it's the prime reason I want both LA's to fail season after season.

[KeonClark]

jmo but your line for jersey retirement is way too low. It has to be for all time greats, not the really goods for their time here.
Kyle is the only jersey I'd retire here right now, other's can go to some wall of fame thing. Pascal/Fred TBD.

And I think the statue thing is kinda stupid really and believe that that will become more obvious as the years roll on.
That's for Michael Jordan's, Gretzky, Orr etc. Greats of the game, not just a team. It reeks of corporate attention seeking with a side order of Kyle Lowry replica jerseys now on sale....

I mean, Philadelphia actually has a statue of a fictional movie character .... that Stallone commissioned himself


Retire Kyle's jersey and give DeMar a spot on the wall of fame. Put Vince *shudder* up there first if you must, I'd never retire his jersey.

You gotta retire demar, 10 and 7 will hang together.

Fair point on the statue. The jays have nobody, and they won twice.

The first thing I'd start with is knocking down that stupid Ted rogers statue at the skydome. Yay for greedy dead billionaires?

[Jclaw]

Vince (and TMac) contributed immensely to the early success and popularity of the Raptors. You can never write the team's history without mentioning his name.
The point I was trying to make in that comparison was that all of them were a huge part of the team's history, who didn't win a ring for the team.

Valid point for Vince. Imagine there was a hall of fame player who was drafted and had the best moments of his career for a team. And that team is the Raptors. Who wouldn’t celebrate that. I can see writing the same story about Bosh but his greatest moments happened elsewhere

[Hotshot]

didn't we do it when he came back?

We did.

He got the video and a standing ovation.

What more do you need?!

Maybe get another ceremony the day he decides to retire and choses the Raptors as his retirement jersey.

[KeonClark]

Valid point for Vince. Imagine there was a hall of fame player who was drafted and had the best moments of his career for a team. And that team is the Raptors. Who wouldn’t celebrate that. I can see writing the same story about Bosh but his greatest moments happened elsewhere

Vinces closest comparable imo is Carmelo and the Nuggets. Although Vince really did put basketball on the map here in ways that are hard to compare with really any other situations. He did for Canada basketball what Wayne Gretzky did for American hockey.

[The Claw Reborn]

jmo but your line for jersey retirement is way too low. It has to be for all time greats, not the really goods for their time here.
Kyle is the only jersey I'd retire here right now, other's can go to some wall of fame thing. Pascal/Fred TBD.

And I think the statue thing is kinda stupid really and believe that that will become more obvious as the years roll on.
That's for Michael Jordan's, Gretzky, Orr etc. Greats of the game, not just a team. It reeks of corporate attention seeking with a side order of Kyle Lowry replica jerseys now on sale....

I mean, Philadelphia actually has a statue of a fictional movie character .... that Stallone commissioned himself


Retire Kyle's jersey and give DeMar a spot on the wall of fame. Put Vince *shudder* up there first if you must, I'd never retire his jersey.

My take on this….if any of the players I mentioned were former Lakers or Celtics, the standard to retire their respective jersey should definitely be higher based on history and past team glory. Arguably Kyle and Kawhi with their respective impact to the Championship run, they can be considered in getting that post career recognition if they have done it as a Laker or Celtic.

Unfortunately, this franchise have a short history of success and the standard should be lower.

Each of us have different opinions on it.

In my case…

Vince and his impact to the young Canadians back then aspiring to be NBA players, the evolution of the game from a mere Hockey Town to the increased interest in the sport of basketball. No matter how you accept the terms of his departure, it maybe painful to you but that feeling could be different if someone is basing it on the totality of his contributions as a Raptor on and off the court.

Derozan - it cannot be denied that I have a more biased opinion on him but I also wont deny what he is deserving in terms of loyalty to the organization and fans. But that recognition should only be limited to a jersey retirement. Statue would be an overkill.

Van Vleet and Siakam - their careers are not over yet as Raptors but jersey retirement should be the minimum especially as they were also integral to the Championship run.

Bosh - was a sell out, never a winner and how he never recognized the organization, former teammates and fans during his Hofer speech magnified that feeling of disrespect of him.

Kawhi - yes very disappointing that he left but gave us our only glory and could be years for this franchise to reach that pinnacle of ultimate success

Kyle - he embodied every positive things I mentioned about the players above. On and off the court, he demonstrated the resilience and character of Torontonians and Canadians. Winning the Championship was the icing to the cake.

[planetmars]

I don't understand how you can think George left OKC in any kind of good way.
He had a valid contract that he had signed only one year earlier, forcing OKC to mold their team/budget in a certain way to accommodate his contract.

Then Kawhi came calling through the back door after telling famous tamperer and weirdo Steve Ballmer that he wouldn't jettison Toronto unless they could bring another superstar along for the ride, valid contract or not, just tell the team you want out!

"If there is any consolation for Thunder fans, George acknowledged that if not for Leonard suggesting the two play together, he would’ve likely stayed in Oklahoma City because of “the bond and loyalty he felt to Westbrook and the Thunder” even after just one season."

Ballmer, Kawhi and PG were all bush in this dirty transaction. Along with lebron the other famous manipulator, it's the prime reason I want both LA's to fail season after season.

George didn't sit out any games or looked fat coming into training camp / faked an injury, etc. He asked his team quietly to be traded, and they worked out a deal.

If management is truly awful, a player should have the right to ask out to get away from the toxic environment. But if it's done politely, behind closed doors so that management can field the best offers then it's all cool in my opinion.