Miles Plumlee Toronto Raptors Bound? Center In Exchange For Terrence Ross Rumored!

[grindhouse]

I think I would pull the tigger on this sometimes guys like ross just need a change of address. same goes for the other 2. If it doesnt work out neither team loses much

[magoon]

1. Ross and Lou are our most obvious and usable trade chips and any trade was almost certainly going to involve one of them.

2. Ross isn't worth that much at this point because any team that trades for him has to decide if they extend him or not with relatively small time to watch him and make that decision. Ross has all the tools to be a quality starter in this league, but he hasn't really turned into one yet and in his third year, particularly with the amount of time he's been given, that's a concern. His trade value is likely lower than it was at the start of the year.

3. Plumlee doesn't have much upside, but he's a backup centre who's shown the ability to be a starter, so he's equivalent to Ross in that respect. Green is a question mark thanks to his behaviour, but he's a question mark with an expiring contract so any damage he might do would be minimal at most. That having been said, I think the only reason Masai talks to Phoenix is because he wants Ennis, and I think he's right to want Ennis. The purpose of the deal, from Masai's point of view, is to get Ennis. Probably he looks at Green and Plumlee as potentially re-flippable assets. Maybe he turns around and tries to get Sacramento to trade Nik Stauskas for Plumlee, I dunno.

[draps]

Phoenix would be great for Ross' career, but green here would fail miserably.

[Hurricane_Herm]

3. Plumlee doesn't have much upside, but he's a backup centre who's shown the ability to be a starter, so he's equivalent to Ross in that respect. .... The purpose of the deal, from Masai's point of view, is to get Ennis. Probably he looks at Green and Plumlee as potentially re-flippable assets. Maybe he turns around and tries to get Sacramento to trade Nik Stauskas for Plumlee, I dunno.

Gave me an idea: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ll2sm53

Raps: Ennis, Staus
Kings: Plumlee, Steemer
PHX: Ross

Kings wanted front court help, PHX gets a good SG for their system, Raps bring the Canadians home.

Lowry/Vas/Ennis
Derozan/Staus
Johnson/Fields
Amir/2pat
Val/Hayes

[Miekenstien]

Could be what the team is doing with greivis at the 3

[Since Day 1]

And Ross is a 24 year old SG with basically no upside.

Come on, do you really think we can get a "big time" talent for Ross?

And i've been saying this for a while now, we need a backup C and a backup PG. Miles is no Mason but he's pretty good and a perfect fit for our team. He's an energy guy, good rebounder, he's 6'11(good size). Averaged 8/7 for the Suns last year in 24mpg.

Ross has no upside are you kidding me? Ross has all the tools to be an outstanding player. Will he become one, we don't know yet. And we have a backup point guard, one of Masai's favourite players, and who is 50 times better than Ennis. We don't need a backup centre either, we have one of those as well but we have a coach who won't let him play.

The only thing this team needs at the moment is a new coach.

[grindhouse]

Ross dropped 52 PTS in a game he also near had the steal that could have taken us into the second round. He is not playing well for us right now and like I said maybe a change of location will reignite him. Any team looking at ross that's what they r looking at. Sometimes a player is just in the wrong role and wrong system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[magoon]

Ross has no upside are you kidding me? Ross has all the tools to be an outstanding player. Will he become one, we don't know yet. And we have a backup point guard, one of Masai's favourite players, and who is 50 times better than Ennis. We don't need a backup centre either, we have one of those as well but we have a coach who won't let him play.

A few points:

1. At a certain point "having the tools" to be an outstanding player stops being anything teams care about. To present dramatic examples of this: Michael Beasley had "all the tools" for years. Josh Smith has "all the tools" right now to be an All-Star player. But Beasley played himself out of the league because he couldn't get it together and J-Smoove is in the process of doing that right now (Houston is better with him off the court than on). Ross has astounding verticals, excellent speed and a very good shooting stroke, and he has the potential to be a decent defender at the 2 (he doesn't have the size to defend the 3). But his basketball IQ is not great and hasn't improved, and the fact that he has the potential to be a good defender doesn't change the fact that he isn't anything more than average.

At a certain point teams stop saying "he's got potential" and switch to "he is what he is," and Ross is approaching that point quickly - he's almost 24, and 24-26 is when players start becoming regarded as mature NBA players for the most part. DeMar managed a relatively late progression to "star player" when he was 24, but that was mostly based on an insane amount of work ethic which Ross hasn't evidenced - and DeMar is still only at the absolute lowest rung of "star."

2. I like Greivis, but Greivis is another fine example of "he is what he is" - decent (if streaky) shooter, good floor sense and facilitator, but doesn't have the speed or the reach to defend the point. The Raptors last year were most successful using Gravy when they let him run the offense from the 2 with Kyle at point. Simply put: it's possible to upgrade from Vasquez at backup guard.

Ennis is a rookie, but he's a rookie who has most of the tools necessary to be an excellent point guard. He's already an excellent defender and facilitator, his basketball IQ is excellent, and although his shooting stroke was considered to be one of his weaknesses in college he still shot with 43 percent accuracy (and 35% from three), which is evidence that with coaching and training there's a good chance he can become a truly excellent shot. The reason Ennis went relatively late in the first round given his talent and performance at Syracuse is because he's not an athletic freak like Elfrid Payton or Dante Exum were, and it's definitely true that Ennis will never become John Wall or Russell Westbrook - but, frankly, there's good odds he can become an Andre Miller or even a Kyle Lowry. There's a reason the Raps were so high on him and it's not because he's Canadian.

3. Greg Steimsma is not a realistic option at backup center: he's a fouling machine, a big man who exists to give fouls so better players won't take them. "He can sort of block shots" does not a decent NBA center make. There's a reason Steamer is making the minimum.

[The Great One]

Ross has no upside are you kidding me? Ross has all the tools to be an outstanding player. Will he become one, we don't know yet. And we have a backup point guard, one of Masai's favourite players, and who is 50 times better than Ennis. We don't need a backup centre either, we have one of those as well but we have a coach who won't let him play.

The only thing this team needs at the moment is a new coach.

Watch the games.

[S.R.]

A few points:

1. At a certain point "having the tools" to be an outstanding player stops being anything teams care about. To present dramatic examples of this: Michael Beasley had "all the tools" for years. Josh Smith has "all the tools" right now to be an All-Star player. But Beasley played himself out of the league because he couldn't get it together and J-Smoove is in the process of doing that right now (Houston is better with him off the court than on). Ross has astounding verticals, excellent speed and a very good shooting stroke, and he has the potential to be a decent defender at the 2 (he doesn't have the size to defend the 3). But his basketball IQ is not great and hasn't improved, and the fact that he has the potential to be a good defender doesn't change the fact that he isn't anything more than average.

At a certain point teams stop saying "he's got potential" and switch to "he is what he is," and Ross is approaching that point quickly - he's almost 24, and 24-26 is when players start becoming regarded as mature NBA players for the most part. DeMar managed a relatively late progression to "star player" when he was 24, but that was mostly based on an insane amount of work ethic which Ross hasn't evidenced - and DeMar is still only at the absolute lowest rung of "star."

2. I like Greivis, but Greivis is another fine example of "he is what he is" - decent (if streaky) shooter, good floor sense and facilitator, but doesn't have the speed or the reach to defend the point. The Raptors last year were most successful using Gravy when they let him run the offense from the 2 with Kyle at point. Simply put: it's possible to upgrade from Vasquez at backup guard.

Ennis is a rookie, but he's a rookie who has most of the tools necessary to be an excellent point guard. He's already an excellent defender and facilitator, his basketball IQ is excellent, and although his shooting stroke was considered to be one of his weaknesses in college he still shot with 43 percent accuracy (and 35% from three), which is evidence that with coaching and training there's a good chance he can become a truly excellent shot. The reason Ennis went relatively late in the first round given his talent and performance at Syracuse is because he's not an athletic freak like Elfrid Payton or Dante Exum were, and it's definitely true that Ennis will never become John Wall or Russell Westbrook - but, frankly, there's good odds he can become an Andre Miller or even a Kyle Lowry. There's a reason the Raps were so high on him and it's not because he's Canadian.

3. Greg Steimsma is not a realistic option at backup center: he's a fouling machine, a big man who exists to give fouls so better players won't take them. "He can sort of block shots" does not a decent NBA center make. There's a reason Steamer is making the minimum.

Re: Ross - Josh Smith and Michael Beasley are both varying degrees of head cases, so not the best comparison for Ross imho. Better would be to look at late bloomers with longer developmental curves. That happens, and that's what you're hoping for Ross at this point. I haven't given up on him. He's not very good at fighting through screens and loses his man sometimes, but otherwise it's not so much that he's a bad player as he just has such a minimal impact on the game. Aside from drawing his man out to the 3 pt line because of his shooting ability, many games it seems like he does next to nothing.

Gerald Green developed a little slower. So did Lowry, a first time All-Star at 28 yrs old. The half-empty comparison would be a Tim Thomas type of player, who always seems to have the potential to be much more and never really gets there.

[magoon]

Better would be to look at late bloomers with longer developmental curves. That happens, and that's what you're hoping for Ross at this point. I haven't given up on him. He's not very good at fighting through screens and loses his man sometimes, but otherwise it's not so much that he's a bad player as he just has such a minimal impact on the game. Aside from drawing his man out to the 3 pt line because of his shooting ability, many games it seems like he does next to nothing.

Gerald Green developed a little slower. So did Lowry, a first time All-Star at 28 yrs old. The half-empty comparison would be a Tim Thomas type of player, who always seems to have the potential to be much more and never really gets there.

Obviously you're hoping Ross is a late bloomer at this point, but again: longer developmental curves for non-bigs are relatively rare. That's why DeMar's blooming last year was a surprise and we were all casting back to Rip Hamilton for a comparable.

Green and Lowry aren't good comparisons to hope for wrt Ross because Green and Lowry's issues weren't lack of talent nor were they lack of playing good basketball. Green and Lowry's problems is that both of them are basically headcases who managed to work out their issues (Lowry moreso than Green). Ross, in comparison, is easygoing and chill. His problem isn't "he gets in his own head/aggravates his team." His problem is that he's a natural shooting guard with no demonstrated playmaking ability or interest and mediocre-at-best basketball IQ.

[raptors999]

Obviously you're hoping Ross is a late bloomer at this point, but again: longer developmental curves for non-bigs are relatively rare. That's why DeMar's blooming last year was a surprise and we were all casting back to Rip Hamilton for a comparable.

Green and Lowry aren't good comparisons to hope for wrt Ross because Green and Lowry's issues weren't lack of talent nor were they lack of playing good basketball. Green and Lowry's problems is that both of them are basically headcases who managed to work out their issues (Lowry moreso than Green). Ross, in comparison, is easygoing and chill. His problem isn't "he gets in his own head/aggravates his team." His problem is that he's a natural shooting guard with no demonstrated playmaking ability or interest and mediocre-at-best basketball IQ.

SG on the Raptors - Demar, Lou, GV and Lowry. Unless Ross can shoot off the dribble there isn't a place. Raptors aren't even running PnR with SG.

Other teams SG, Korver, Thompson, Mathews, Beal none play dominate lay as off the dribble shooters

[magoon]

SG on the Raptors - Demar, Lou, GV and Lowry. Unless Ross can shoot off the dribble there isn't a place. Raptors aren't even running PnR with SG.

Entirely true, which is why we're playing Ross as an undersized SF. Which is silly, as the Brooklyn series demonstrated. He's not a small forward. He's a shooting guard. When we talk about the need to improve his D, we're basically all conceding that his likely ceiling is prime Danny Green.

Which is great! Danny Green is a fine player! But Danny Green wouldn't thrive on the Raptors because he needs a pass-heavy offense to thrive; this is not to say that our offense is selfish, but rather that we designed our offense to be "create maximum opportunities for solid iso plays." And I think other teams know that, and know that Ross doesn't exactly fit here because he's average at best at creating his own shot.

[raptors999]

Entirely true, which is why we're playing Ross as an undersized SF. Which is silly, as the Brooklyn series demonstrated. He's not a small forward. He's a shooting guard. When we talk about the need to improve his D, we're basically all conceding that his likely ceiling is prime Danny Green.

Which is great! Danny Green is a fine player! But Danny Green wouldn't thrive on the Raptors because he needs a pass-heavy offense to thrive; this is not to say that our offense is selfish, but rather that we designed our offense to be "create maximum opportunities for solid iso plays." And I think other teams know that, and know that Ross doesn't exactly fit here because he's average at best at creating his own shot.

Ross has no trade value based on what he has shown. Even JV isn't really tradable based on never being a factor in the second half of games. If Ross was exceeding Beal in production he would easily bring Arrafalo and Chandler from the Nuggets or Plumlee and Ennis and MU still wouldn't do it. Anybody trading him now isn't getting near best value just dumping a player that doesn't cost anything to keep.

[NoPropsneeded]

Gave me an idea: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ll2sm53

Raps: Ennis, Staus
Kings: Plumlee, Steemer
PHX: Ross

Kings wanted front court help, PHX gets a good SG for their system, Raps bring the Canadians home.

Lowry/Vas/Ennis
Derozan/Staus
Johnson/Fields
Amir/2pat
Val/Hayes

I really like this trade. Staus is a knockdown shooter and Ennis is just a very smart player with huge upside