Goals for the rest of the ‘24 season

[DanH]

if functional what we should have been striving for giving up what we gave up? if you add that and the thad deal up in terms of assets again we should have just taken that and went for the correct center maybe a KP or a Turner.

Yes. A starting quality player is a pretty decent return for a 1st.

Saying the Poeltl deal is a bad deal is silly when you have to roll it in with an actual bad (though I insist not as bad as many think) deal to make that point.

Porzingis was a risk that paid off for Boston but that most teams wouldn't take and could have turned out real bad. I don't think Turner is really the answer. Jak is better.

[LJ2]

There's less evidence we will be better than 7th or 8th next season. If bookies made odds for next season we would be right in that range.

Well there is actually no evidence since we haven't played a single minute of the new season yet. Not to mention draft and offseason moves to come.

Point is we have facts we can use to make this decision vs taking a guess on where we'll be next season.

[DanH]

Easy answer is no matter where we end up, it's going to be luck of the draw whether we keep the pick or not, somewhere in the 40% to 60% chance range, so basically a coin flip. Losing games just gets us a slightly better coin flip.

Not much reason to get super invested in hoping for one thing or another at this point. We can control very little, no matter what we do it will almost entirely come down to luck. It was different when we had a chance at stringing together some wins with a full rotation around our core of the future. Now unfortunately it's just counting out the rest of the season and then hoping for luck, one direction or the other.

[LJ2]

Easy answer is no matter where we end up, it's going to be luck of the draw whether we keep the pick or not, somewhere in the 40% to 60% chance range, so basically a coin flip. Losing games just gets us a slightly better coin flip.

Not much reason to get super invested in hoping for one thing or another at this point. We can control very little, no matter what we do it will almost entirely come down to luck. It was different when we had a chance at stringing together some wins with a full rotation around our core of the future. Now unfortunately it's just counting out the rest of the season and then hoping for luck, one direction or the other.

Yup will come down to the lottery. Makes for some fun debates in the meanwhile though.

[planetmars]

we have an entirely new staff we dont have any of tim leiwekes' hires who were the best of the best of the best.




in terms of growth sure but other teams will be growing too... indiana will end up as a 5th seed that is my prediction for this year... they will still have hali, who is 23... they will have siakam who isn't really showing any decline oh btw removing that intial 10 games of the season and look at his 3 point shooting for the season let alone ind alone.


Orlando will be better and have the assets to make moves.... boston, cleveland, bucks, healthy sixers, knicks, and dont count out the heat. AFTER THAT you can argue that a healthy charlotte could be dangerous ... detroit has too much talent to be that bad and an incoming top 4 pick more 5 pick more than likely AND capspace. Chicago is an unknown and brooklyn as bad as they are ..wont have an incentive to tank but are likely willing to deal simmons. My guess is they are the ones that go star hunting with those phoenix picks and the simmons contract which will be an expiring btw.

Are you talking front office or coaching staff? Tim didn't touch the coaching staff when he got here. It was still Casey running the show, and then eventually Nick. We fired the coaching staff when Darko came in. Or are you saying Casey is the best of the best? Never heard that one before if that's what you are saying/implying.

The Raptors had issues that other teams didn't. I'd say it's fair to say 85% of our roster is brand new and most of those came in during the middle of the season. The only hold outs from previous years are Scottie, Jak, and Chris. So when I talk about growth I mean from a chemistry perspective more than anything. But yes other teams have young talents that will be growing too. But the Raptors should have way more cohesion and that will matter. There are definitely holes on the team and we'll see how well those get filled in the off season. But other teams will have similar holes as players will leave in free agency or money gets tight and teams can't make radical changes that they would like to make. For instance when Pascal asks for a max deal and the Pacers have a harder time fielding their team around that.

This is a parity era in basketball. I mean with this shit burger of a season we were still around 2-3 games back of the play-in for a lot of the season. I don't think its too unreasonable to think they could get better next year even if other teams get better too. Either way if they end up in the lottery again, I still think they could end up as the 10th or 11th worst team in the league as opposed to the 6th or 7th worse. And that's a better pick to give up to the Spurs than a potential top 4 pick in this draft. Hence why I'm a huge proponent of not wishing to convey the pick.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Are you talking front office or coaching staff? Tim didn't touch the coaching staff when he got here. It was still Casey running the show, and then eventually Nick. We fired the coaching staff when Darko came in. Or are you saying Casey is the best of the best? Never heard that one before if that's what you are saying/implying.

The Raptors had issues that other teams didn't. I'd say it's fair to say 85% of our roster is brand new and most of those came in during the middle of the season. The only hold outs from previous years are Scottie, Jak, and Chris. So when I talk about growth I mean from a chemistry perspective more than anything. But yes other teams have young talents that will be growing too. But the Raptors should have way more cohesion and that will matter. There are definitely holes on the team and we'll see how well those get filled in the off season. But other teams will have similar holes as players will leave in free agency or money gets tight and teams can't make radical changes that they would like to make. For instance when Pascal asks for a max deal and the Pacers have a harder time fielding their team around that.

This is a parity era in basketball. I mean with this shit burger of a season we were still around 2-3 games back of the play-in for a lot of the season. I don't think its too unreasonable to think they could get better next year even if other teams get better too. Either way if they end up in the lottery again, I still think they could end up as the 10th or 11th worst team in the league as opposed to the 6th or 7th worse. And that's a better pick to give up to the Spurs than a potential top 4 pick in this draft. Hence why I'm a huge proponent of not wishing to convey the pick.

If I am not mistaken didn't much of the trainers like phil handy come after Tim was hired? Jerry Stackhouse etc?



We lsot a lot of developmental people. There has been a mass brain drain since the chip.

[MixxAOR]

If I am not mistaken didn't much of the trainers like phil handy come after Tim was hired? Jerry Stackhouse etc?



We lsot a lot of developmental people. There has been a mass brain drain since the chip.

Phil Handy came with Kawhi and then left after Kawhi didn't resign. Jerry Stackhouse was hired second year of Raptors 905.

Developmental guy when Tim was still here was Bill Bayno the guy with pads who worked with JV. And of course the goat

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yes. A starting quality player is a pretty decent return for a 1st.

Saying the Poeltl deal is a bad deal is silly when you have to roll it in with an actual bad (though I insist not as bad as many think) deal to make that point.

Porzingis was a risk that paid off for Boston but that most teams wouldn't take and could have turned out real bad. I don't think Turner is really the answer. Jak is better.

It wasn't just a first though. I also never said it was an awful deal I said it wasn't the CORRECT deal. Big difference. Jak vs Turner is a different conversation. Again they are two different centers that are good for different team constructions. Jak was not the correct kind of center. If you feel like he was then they could have just let kyle walk instead of wasting time and could have gotten Holmes but they were cheap on the years aspect if im not mistaken.


Is Jak better than Birch? YES. Is Jak the best center given the weaknesses and strengths of your current crop and what was there then? NO.

KP was a risk sure but the sticking point back then was gary trent... no offence I would have rather had KP AND his contract at the time was coming up so you would have controlled your financial future more so if it didn't work out.

I have my own personal issues with KP but in terms of the offensive fit it was there. Underrated defensively too. adv. numbers put him in the 93rd percentile offensively and 89th defensively.. .doesn't get much better than that. Rim defence rated in the 98th percentile. Underrated defender too.

Poeltl is a better defender ranking in the 98th but offensively in the 60th percentile. With KP being a better rim protector which is needed on this roster. Poeltl's passing rating has dipped down too now that teams realize that on a team like ours.. you can just literally sit on his passing lane since he gets the ball up above the arc.

Turner is worse defensively better rim protector though (77th percentile). Offensively he is way better though 83rd.


Remember being better offensively would grant you more passing opportunities. Go back and watch how KP guarded poeltl OR Embiid.




For the money and assets that were spent... I would have rather waited and obtained Hartenstein who was had for less and is having a 99th percentile defensive impact.... doesn't get sat in the 4th because of his piss poor foul rate and FT %. Similar but better offensive ability at 70th percentile (IH) vs 60th percentile (Jak).


The other players are far more portable as players.

The amount of times Darko has centers getting caught with their pants down as a result of preswitches is the exact reason why you want someone more nimble... of course I will grant ONE thing. Koloko in theory would have helped A LOT, bu t that is all theory at this point. Not much more beyond the flashes that were seen.

[planetmars]

If I am not mistaken didn't much of the trainers like phil handy come after Tim was hired? Jerry Stackhouse etc?



We lsot a lot of developmental people. There has been a mass brain drain since the chip.

Lieweke came in 2013 and left in 2014. Handy was hired in 2018. Stackhouse was the 905 coach in 2015. And again they were assistant coaches. Also why would Tim care who an assistant coach was?

The coaching staff was fully replaced when Masai fired Nurse and replaced him with Darko last summer. Everyone but I believe Jim Sann was replaced. That had nothing to do with Tim though.

But a majority of the front office remained. Teresa Resch just recently announced that she's heading a WNBA venture to bring a team in Toronto and is no longer part of the Raptors. That just happened about a month back though. And a few years back Weltman left for Orlando to be president there. That's when Bobby Webster took over GM duties here.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Phil Handy came with Kawhi and then left after Kawhi didn't resign. Jerry Stackhouse was hired second year of Raptors 905.

Developmental guy when Tim was still here was Bill Bayno the guy with pads who worked with JV. And of course the goat

My bad about handy I was correct about Stackhouse though. I forget when motumbo was brought on. Again we have had brain drain and haven't seen a proper level of replenishment. I have said my theory before and I will say it again. They tried to lean way to far into analytics with the noah system etc and invested in that financially more than investing in the best of the best trainers over the years as guys left. Solidified once Eric Khoury was brought on and since then we haven't won much down in the g league. It isn't all on the hirings we have had bad undrafted signings etc but yeah.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Lieweke came in 2013 and left in 2014. Handy was hired in 2018. Stackhouse was the 905 coach in 2015. And again they were assistant coaches. Also why would Tim care who an assistant coach was?

The coaching staff was fully replaced when Masai fired Nurse and replaced him with Darko last summer. Everyone but I believe Jim Sann was replaced. That had nothing to do with Tim though.

But a majority of the front office remained. Teresa Resch just recently announced that she's heading a WNBA venture to bring a team in Toronto and is no longer part of the Raptors. That just happened about a month back though. And a few years back Weltman left for Orlando to be president there. That's when Bobby Webster took over GM duties here.

im sorry where did weltman go again? and Mutombo? and Jama until this year?

[planetmars]

im sorry where did weltman go again? and Mutombo? and Jama until this year?

Weltman is the president of Orlando. Mutombo went to Phoenix in 2022 and is now with the Bucks. Jama went to the Warriors and came back. But this has nothing to do with Tim.

So I still don't know why you brought up Tim's name. He was only here for 1 season. And what he did was he hired Masai and gave him the blessing to create his training facility and bring in the 905 development team.

He had no part at all in the coaching moves several years later.

[grindhouse]

i have a few more film study, film study, film study…besides jema scout gsw our scouts have been terrible. they get a partial pass beause of the change of roster

[TrueTorontoFan]

Weltman is the president of Orlando. Mutombo went to Phoenix in 2022 and is now with the Bucks. Jama went to the Warriors and came back. But this has nothing to do with Tim.

So I still don't know why you brought up Tim's name. He was only here for 1 season. And what he did was he hired Masai and gave him the blessing to create his training facility and bring in the 905 development team.

He had no part at all in the coaching moves several years later.

with him came ambition and another level of being serious. With him wanting to bring an NFL team even.