2015 Raptors Offseason - Everything rumors, musings and rumblings

[Chr1s1anL]

No, it isn't.

Scoring efficiently is important to baketball.

Would you rather get to the line like Harden or drain 3's like Curry?

End of the day doesn't matter, they both score efficiently (but the correct answer is definitely curry)

getting to the line is not important in and of itself. However if by getting to line you were uber efficient then awesome. Just like midrange shooting isn't inefficient in and of itself, but shooting 40% while doing it is inefficient.

Id rather get to the line. Gets the other team in the bonus. Give you a chance to set your defense up. It also takes a starter out the game if their in foul trouble.

[JWash]

Take away that aspect of Demar's game, how many times does he get to the line then? It's a much more complicated topic then what its being made out to be.

Sure on the surface you're happy anytime a good shooter ends up on the line, I concede that point. But how do you get on the line?

What isn't so great is that Demar gets to the line because of his awful mid range game. If he was the 4th or 5th option I would guarantee he doesn't get to the line like he does. He doesn't get to the line like Lou by being incredibly smooth, or like harden by being so clever.

He gets to the line by constantly hammering away contested shots and gets bailed out every 5 or so.

Also, as long as 40% free throw shooters exist, it isn't guaranteed efficiency

I don't care how he gets to the line.

Either way it's 2 free throws. Getting to the line as a good free throw shooter is efficient, period.

There's no argument to be had here.

[Bandit]

I don't care how he gets to the line.

Either way it's 2 free throws. Getting to the line as a good free throw shooter is efficient, period.

There's no argument to be had here.

I'm not arguing that point. In any single possession that statement holds true.

Over the course of the game i don't care if you got to the line 15 time for 15 points.

If you scored 25 on 30 shots that's still shitty efficiency.

No argument to be had here

[JWash]

By PPP getting to the line is the single most efficient play in basketball (as long as you are a competent FT shooter) aside from a dunk or layup.

- If you are a 40% 3PT shooter, you average 1.2 points per possession when you take a 3
- You only need to shoot 60% from the FT line to match this

Now I'm not saying DD is efficient at all, because less than 1/2 his possessions end with him at the FT Line, and he balances that out by regularly taking the most inefficient shot in the game (the 16-23 foot mid-range shot) and not shooting it particularly well.

[Bandit]

By PPP getting to the line is the single most efficient play in basketball (as long as you are a competent FT shooter) aside from a dunk or layup.

- If you are a 40% 3PT shooter, you average 1.2 points per possession when you take a 3
- You only need to shoot 60% from the FT line to match this

Now I'm not saying DD is efficient at all, because less than 1/2 his possessions end with him at the FT Line, and he balances that out by regularly taking the most inefficient shot in the game (the 16-23 foot mid-range shot) and not shooting it particularly well.

Yes.

Now we're on the same page.

So again to what I was originally trying to say : Someone getting to the line 10 times a game does not make them a valuable and efficient player. (that was what I was trying to say when i referenced auto efficient, boss was coming around and i rushed the thought)

By following that line of thought, its not terribly hard to say FT shooting doesn't guarantee efficiency in a player. However it can be a tool to become efficient. Just like good 3 point shooting and a good post up game...

[Bandit]

Id rather get to the line. Gets the other team in the bonus. Give you a chance to set your defense up. It also takes a starter out the game if their in foul trouble.

Not guaranteed to get anyone in the bonus, but yes it can put some pressure on them in that regard. I will admit that is a benefit.

This is something that is only really valid when you can't defend in transition, most teams in the nba should be able to make this work without it being a concern.

I'm not arguing that it is a useful tool, but it's not more important than being able to space the floor, create for others, and play tough defense

[S.R.]

Also, while any FT's are a good way to score if you have a good FT shooter, DeMar's ability to draw fouls doesn't really pressure the defense in the traditional way you'd expect when you talk about a scorer who draws a lot of contact. Guys who attack relentlessly and get fouled in the process put pressure on the defense in a way that DeMar's game just doesn't. There are bigs or offensive wings who you know are getting layups if you don't move your feet/rotate fast on defense and contest hard. With DeMar, you could just let him take the shot and know that a lot of those shots are only converting at a 30-40% rate. It's just not the same, and something I think teams were figuring out last season (Washington only gave him 4 FTA per game in this year's first round, a huge drop off from Brooklyn a year ago). You don't have to foul DeMar the same way you have to foul an aggressive player attacking the basket. Let him shoot his 18 footers.

[Scraptor]

That's the point. They do it differently.

Getting to the line isn't automatically efficient. Not every team relies on it. It's being severely overrated from a team building perspective

This is the core of your argument, I think, and it's a good one. Sacramento and Minnesota were numbers 1 and 3 in free throw attempt rate last year. They were 14th and 25th in Oratg and generally not good teams.

Golden State was 26th in free throw attempt rate, 2nd in Oratg, and won the championship.

You have to think about the cost of getting those free throws. Are you forcing contested jumpers to get those free throws? Is that preventing ball movement? Notice who else is on this list with DeMar... Rudy from Sacramento, Lou, and three TWolves.



The act of shooting free throws may be efficient but I don't think from a team perspective it's any sort of vital strategy.

[BobLoblaw]

Agent Wallace Prather confirms former #Rockets forward Josh Smith has reached a contract agreement with #Clippers.Sources say it's for 1year

— Mark Berman (@MarkBermanFox26) July 16, 2015

[JimiCliff]

You really don't think DD is going to have a good year in a contract year where his reportedly looking for 20+ mill. I'm under the believe this up coming year will be better than 13-14.

I can't believe that you're using a player trying harder in a contract year as reason to reward him with a lavish contract.

[JWash]

I'm getting kinda worried about this contract year thing.

What if DD's agent told him that being efficient is gonna get him paid more and he does it for one year and then reverts back to his original self after we pay him 20M+ per year? We already know DD is all about the money and will do anything to get paid even if that means no more iso-20-footers after looking off a JV post up.

Could be disastrous for our organization. Ship him out now and avoid that risk imo

[JawsGT]

Why do people pick on Demar so much? Lowry, GV, and Lou were all rather inefficient last year. They all took terrible shots, it wasn't just Demar. And no, they didn't bring so much other shit to the table as to forgive them their inefficiencies. Lowry took some charges, that's about it. Defensively, he was a sieve, conceding career nights to back up PG's far too often. I just don't get why he gets off the hook around here.

In any event, the only players in the NBA that could be efficient in Demar's role on this Raps team are superstars. Harden, Curry, and Durant perhaps. I would bet LBJ's efficiency would be similar to what it was in the finals...not that great really. Hard to be efficient in a ISO heavy offence without really good outlets and support. Without Love and Irving, LBJ's efficiency dropped. Westbrook, I believe, took a hit without Durant.

Point is, it's very difficult to be efficient when the team plays the way it does. Also, I just don't get why some constantly shit on this guy simply because, from what I can tell, he is not a superstar. He, as far as I'm concerned, has exceeded all expectations of him coming into the league. I think he deserves a pat on the back and some respect for that. Not really Demar's fault that he has been groomed and developed the way he has. I don't get it, with all the freedom he has had developmentally, are we expecting him to be even better than he is, despite the fact that expectations were relatively low coming into the league? Christ, he couldn't shoot at all, barely dribble, but despite all the progress he's shitty because he can't hit 3's at league average rate or make plays like a top tier point guard. He has his faults, and he certainly can improve, but I think many shit on him for very wrong reasons.

[JWash]

Why do people pick on Demar so much? Lowry, GV, and Lou were all rather inefficient last year. They all took terrible shots, it wasn't just Demar. And no, they didn't bring so much other shit to the table as to forgive them their inefficiencies. Lowry took some charges, that's about it. Defensively, he was a sieve, conceding career nights to back up PG's far too often. I just don't get why he gets off the hook around here.

In any event, the only players in the NBA that could be efficient in Demar's role on this Raps team are superstars. Harden, Curry, and Durant perhaps. I would bet LBJ's efficiency would be similar to what it was in the finals...not that great really. Hard to be efficient in a ISO heavy offence without really good outlets and support. Without Love and Irving, LBJ's efficiency dropped. Westbrook, I believe, took a hit without Durant.

Point is, it's very difficult to be efficient when the team plays the way it does. Also, I just don't get why some constantly shit on this guy simply because, from what I can tell, he is not a superstar. He, as far as I'm concerned, has exceeded all expectations of him coming into the league. I think he deserves a pat on the back and some respect for that. Not really Demar's fault that he has been groomed and developed the way he has. I don't get it, with all the freedom he has had developmentally, are we expecting him to be even better than he is, despite the fact that expectations were relatively low coming into the league? Christ, he couldn't shoot at all, barely dribble, but despite all the progress he's shitty because he can't hit 3's at league average rate or make plays like a top tier point guard. He has his faults, and he certainly can improve, but I think many shit on him for very wrong reasons.

That's why Lou and Vasquez are OUTTA HERE. Lowry has shown the ability to be very efficient before this year so this year was more of an anomaly for him (we all know chucking is the norm for DD).

Hopefully Masai continues to ship out players that can't play smart, efficient basketball which means DD should be on the chopping block next (and Ross too if he can't learn to 3+D properly).

[MACK11]

Why do people pick on Demar so much? Lowry, GV, and Lou were all rather inefficient last year. They all took terrible shots, it wasn't just Demar. And no, they didn't bring so much other shit to the table as to forgive them their inefficiencies. Lowry took some charges, that's about it. Defensively, he was a sieve, conceding career nights to back up PG's far too often. I just don't get why he gets off the hook around here.

In any event, the only players in the NBA that could be efficient in Demar's role on this Raps team are superstars. Harden, Curry, and Durant perhaps. I would bet LBJ's efficiency would be similar to what it was in the finals...not that great really. Hard to be efficient in a ISO heavy offence without really good outlets and support. Without Love and Irving, LBJ's efficiency dropped. Westbrook, I believe, took a hit without Durant.

Point is, it's very difficult to be efficient when the team plays the way it does. Also, I just don't get why some constantly shit on this guy simply because, from what I can tell, he is not a superstar. He, as far as I'm concerned, has exceeded all expectations of him coming into the league. I think he deserves a pat on the back and some respect for that. Not really Demar's fault that he has been groomed and developed the way he has. I don't get it, with all the freedom he has had developmentally, are we expecting him to be even better than he is, despite the fact that expectations were relatively low coming into the league? Christ, he couldn't shoot at all, barely dribble, but despite all the progress he's shitty because he can't hit 3's at league average rate or make plays like a top tier point guard. He has his faults, and he certainly can improve, but I think many shit on him for very wrong reasons.

Ask yourself this

Is Casey forcing DeMar to shoot most of his shots from the worst area of the court?

I understand that this current system is garbage but DeMar is a child, he's choosing to take these horrific shots night after night after night.

[MACK11]

Ask yourself this

Is Casey forcing DeMar to shoot most of his shots from the worst area of the court?

I understand that this current system is garbage but DeMar isn't a child, he's choosing to take these horrific shots night after night after night.

Fixed

Fucking autocorrect