Batum: Does he still fit?

[Bandit]

If trading spare parts such as Ross, JJ, and Amir for Batum was the only move, I could see the correlations to Colangelo.

However, I don't see such a deal as the only move. I would be trying to deal DeRozan for a high draft pick an a rotational player.

DD to LA for #4/Young
DD to Denver for #7/Chandler
DD to Charlotte for #9/Henderson or Stephenson


In my ideal fantasy world, this is what I'd like to see:

PG: Lowry, GV
SG: Chandler
SF: Batum, Bruno
PF: Thompson, Patterson
C: JV, McGee, Bebe

+ 7&20

I think Tristan Thompson is a good target at PF (garbage man and rebounder - capable of a double-double every night). He has been growing on me of late.

I would also roll the dice on McGee if he is obtainable on a minimum contract.

#7 would be Porzingis or Henzonja
#20 would be Lucas (if big picked at 7) or Wood (if guard picked at 7)


I think that team is better than what we saw this year and I also think that team has a much higher ceiling long term.



I haven't put too much thought in to this. Happy to read the criticisms!

I know there was a lot of talk about this post, but I haven't had enough coffee to read all of it...

So in my blissful ignorance here's my take:

I like the DD to Denver trade a lot. Can't see LA pulling on the deal for 4.

I Would like to add Lowry to Sac to get their 6 as well.

Move out your spare parts to bring in Batum.

Don't mind picking up thompson, look at him a lot like a healthy amir. Seems like a high character, great teammate, high motor garbage man type.

Could see MU picking up mcgee on a min contract, I like Mcgee on a min contract too.

Bring in Decolo for backup point maybe?

Definitely a step back, but I think you have the chance to raise the teams ceiling significantly rather quickly with some strong young candidates and 2 picks in the following year. You have a lot of assets to move or grow over a couple seasons and I think you're competing again quite quickly. You may not even drop that far, with the chance to make the playoffs depending on how JV plays with a new team and if Batum can shoot again.

You also bring in who I would consider the ideal role model for Bruno in Batum.

I think an approach like this largely, and I mean LARGELY depends on having a Dleague team quickly.

So you would have:

GV/Decolo/(Would like to put in Lucas here, find a way to get an early 2nd late first? Maybe go with him instead of Harrell and let Bruno play those PF minutes?)
Chandler/Winslow/Stauskas
Batum/Bruno/Hezonga
Thompson/PPat/Harrell
JV/McGee/Bebe

I think this team will drop next year, we can evaluate our talent, get 2 top 15 picks and then I think we have a much stronger team 2 years from now. Move some assets for an upgrade at PG or try and sign one.

I like Batum on this team because he plays basketball the right way. Moves the ball, makes smart passes, knocks down open shots and plays hard D. He's the type of player I want to see the young guys learn from. If he doesn't get back to form then he brings that, and if he does then he'll just be that much more valuable.

Edit: Just thought of this, was reading Zach Lowe's article about how hard it is and how much harder it is going to become to build with continuity over the next few years. And I think he's right. If you have the chance to lock someone down like Batum with bird rights then I think you have to do it. Rookies have that much more value for the same reasons.

[mcHAPPY]

But if Batum's injury prevents him from being a good shooter, he doesn't score, and then he is basically providing the same as JJ for an extra $10M. JJ rebounds, defends and largely played well on offence. I would rather JJ at $2.5M to flip to a contender for a young piece than Batum at $11M with injury risk.

Lowry's impact on JV may or may not be too late, but Bruno and any young players coming in don't need a "me-first" leader. With your proposal landing multiple picks, we need a good environment for young players and I just don't see Lowry providing that.

I think Chandler/Batum/Thompson aren't exactly young. Chandler and Batum are both going to be 28 - not much upside there. Plus both are injury concerns (Chandler has only played 70 games in 3 of 8 seasons and 3 times less than 45 games). Thompson offers very little on the offensive side except rebounding.

In your proposed lineup of KL, WC, NB, TT and JV - who is going to stretch the floor at all? Chandler isn't a great perimeter shooter. Batum is a risk as discussed. TT and JV both need to be close to the rim. Basically, KL is the only one to scare a defence. As bad as people think Ross's shooting has been, 37% is a lot better than 34% and 32% from Chandler & Batum. I would take 37% with limited upside over 32%/34% with none.

I think Batum is a better player than JJ. If you're going to target a guy like Batum in free agency, better to have a trial run first and his Bird Rights. I don't see JJ on the Raps beyond next year anyways. If the goal is to make a free agent splash, they will need to renounce his hold anyways.

JV has come along despite a bad leader and coaching that plays to his detriments.

Chandler and Batum might not be with Raptors beyond next season in this fantasy land. Whole point is to constantly get better while adding a lottery pick now. I think the team is better in this proposal and has room to take another step beyond that. Thompson doesn't need to offer a lot on offense if you have move touches to JV and good ball movement. Say you draft Porzingis, you time you have another floor spacer assuming he pans out or maybe you draft Hezonja and he replaces Chandler in starting line up following season?

Who stretches the floor for the Raptors now? DD and Ross average a combined 32% from deep. Chandler and Batum are at 33.5%. You still have PP off the bench. How does Memphis manage with Allen, Z-Bo, and Gasol? More importantly the defense and rebounding is much much improved with Chandler/Batum tandem versus DD/Ross. Maybe Lowry becomes the new Calderon and is hid on that end?



Anyways, I've thrown out ideas. I am not naive enough to think this is the final or right answer but at the same time I have not read anything that sways me from thinking the Raptors can't get better in the short and long term with such proposed moves.

[Axel]

I think Batum is a better player than JJ. If you're going to target a guy like Batum in free agency, better to have a trial run first and his Bird Rights. I don't see JJ on the Raps beyond next year anyways. If the goal is to make a free agent splash, they will need to renounce his hold anyways.

JV has come along despite a bad leader and coaching that plays to his detriments.

Chandler and Batum might not be with Raptors beyond next season in this fantasy land. Whole point is to constantly get better while adding a lottery pick now. I think the team is better in this proposal and has room to take another step beyond that. Thompson doesn't need to offer a lot on offense if you have move touches to JV and good ball movement. Say you draft Porzingis, you time you have another floor spacer assuming he pans out or maybe you draft Hezonja and he replaces Chandler in starting line up following season?

Who stretches the floor for the Raptors now? DD and Ross average a combined 32% from deep. Chandler and Batum are at 33.5%. You still have PP off the bench. How does Memphis manage with Allen, Z-Bo, and Gasol? More importantly the defense and rebounding is much much improved with Chandler/Batum tandem versus DD/Ross. Maybe Lowry becomes the new Calderon and is hid on that end?

Anyways, I've thrown out ideas. I am not naive enough to think this is the final or right answer but at the same time I have not read anything that sways me from thinking the Raptors can't get better in the short and long term with such proposed moves.

I agree that JJ is likely not here next year, but he is a good value player and would rather flip him to a contender at the deadline than trade him for Batum and the risks associated with him. I can see a contender making a push flipping a good prospect or future pick for a player who is versatile, defends and has good size. (2012 - Spurs traded R Jefferson, TJ Ford and 1st rounder for Stephen Jackson: 2011 - Rockets traded Shane Battier for Thabeet and first rounder: 2011 - Hawks traded 3 guards and a first rounder for Kirk Hinrich; 2010 - Utah trades Ronnie Brewer to Memphis for future 1st - ended up being D-Mo). These are the types of deals I am envisioning for JJ.

Adding a lotto pick is definitely a good thing, which is why I think moving Lowry is a move we should be pursuing (which would make Batum move more dubious though).

Nice trick of combining DD and Ross's shooting %s. Ross is 37.2%, highest of the 4 players in question and the same as Patterson, so if Patterson is a + asset for floor spacing, Ross should be considered to be one as well.

Memphis does it mostly with great post play. If we had elite defence, then sure, sacrificing shooting is fine. Don't see it though in that line up. Better yes, but not good enough to sacrifice shooting.

[mcHAPPY]

I agree that JJ is likely not here next year, but he is a good value player and would rather flip him to a contender at the deadline than trade him for Batum and the risks associated with him. I can see a contender making a push flipping a good prospect or future pick for a player who is versatile, defends and has good size. (2012 - Spurs traded R Jefferson, TJ Ford and 1st rounder for Stephen Jackson: 2011 - Rockets traded Shane Battier for Thabeet and first rounder: 2011 - Hawks traded 3 guards and a first rounder for Kirk Hinrich; 2010 - Utah trades Ronnie Brewer to Memphis for future 1st - ended up being D-Mo). These are the types of deals I am envisioning for JJ.

Adding a lotto pick is definitely a good thing, which is why I think moving Lowry is a move we should be pursuing (which would make Batum move more dubious though).

Nice trick of combining DD and Ross's shooting %s. Ross is 37.2%, highest of the 4 players in question and the same as Patterson, so if Patterson is a + asset for floor spacing, Ross should be considered to be one as well.

Memphis does it mostly with great post play. If we had elite defence, then sure, sacrificing shooting is fine. Don't see it though in that line up. Better yes, but not good enough to sacrifice shooting.

And DeRozan is the lowest of the four by a greater margin than Ross is the highest.

Wasn't meant to be a trick.

Chandler and Batum do have history of higher percentages in their favour. Not guaranteed to return to higher career levels but it is at least a possibility. Then again I'm sure there are many who believe DD will add that 3 pt shot so the same argument applies on the other end I guess.

[Axel]

And DeRozan is the lowest of the four by a greater margin than Ross is the highest.

Wasn't meant to be a trick.

Chandler and Batum do have history of higher percentages in their favour. Not guaranteed to return to higher career levels but it is at least a possibility. Then again I'm sure there are many who believe DD will add that 3 pt shot so the same argument applies on the other end I guess.

Technically we both had DD being traded out in our scenarios, so his poor perimeter shooting technically is irrelevant to our fantasy lineup scenarios. You had him gone for #9, and I had him gone for Vonleh.

To the bold - thankfully neither of us are those people

[mcHAPPY]

Technically we both had DD being traded out in our scenarios, so his poor perimeter shooting technically is irrelevant to our fantasy lineup scenarios. You had him gone for #9, and I had him gone for Vonleh.

To the bold - thankfully neither of us are those people

In my dream land I had him going to Denver for #7/Chandler.

If your dream scenario was to come about, I would not even bother with Batum.

I don't think Ujiri/Raptors want to take any steps back now with the success. The trades and lineups I put out there I think can build upon last 2 season success while also adding picks and flexibility to take another step forward sooner rather than later.

I do like Vonleh. Not as much as you but I do like him.

[Chr1s1anL]

All-star game is next year. Masai will not take any chances of being a bad team. All these trade you guys have inexperienced young players that have never played or won in the NBA. You add with Batum to this core. This team needs more high IQ basketball players.

[Bear]

I think Batum is a better player than JJ. If you're going to target a guy like Batum in free agency, better to have a trial run first and his Bird Rights. I don't see JJ on the Raps beyond next year anyways. If the goal is to make a free agent splash, they will need to renounce his hold anyways.

JV has come along despite a bad leader and coaching that plays to his detriments.

Chandler and Batum might not be with Raptors beyond next season in this fantasy land. Whole point is to constantly get better while adding a lottery pick now. I think the team is better in this proposal and has room to take another step beyond that. Thompson doesn't need to offer a lot on offense if you have move touches to JV and good ball movement. Say you draft Porzingis, you time you have another floor spacer assuming he pans out or maybe you draft Hezonja and he replaces Chandler in starting line up following season?

Who stretches the floor for the Raptors now? DD and Ross average a combined 32% from deep. Chandler and Batum are at 33.5%. You still have PP off the bench. How does Memphis manage with Allen, Z-Bo, and Gasol? More importantly the defense and rebounding is much much improved with Chandler/Batum tandem versus DD/Ross. Maybe Lowry becomes the new Calderon and is hid on that end?



Anyways, I've thrown out ideas. I am not naive enough to think this is the final or right answer but at the same time I have not read anything that sways me from thinking the Raptors can't get better in the short and long term with such proposed moves.

I think youvare right on the money, this is not a roster to add too with hopes of making a leap to the upper tier of teams.

This is a team you trade with, try to maintain similar levels of success and build for down the road.

[Bear]

All-star game is next year. Masai will not take any chances of being a bad team. All these trade you guys have inexperienced young players that have never played or won in the NBA. You add with Batum to this core. This team needs more high IQ basketball players.

That has no bearing to massai.

It just nonsense.

Would it be nice to have a player in allstargame? Sure.

It a smart gm like mu going to let it dictate basketball decisions for the long term? Better fucking not

[S.R.]

That has no bearing to massai.

It just nonsense.

Would it be nice to have a player in allstargame? Sure.

It a smart gm like mu going to let it dictate basketball decisions for the long term? Better fucking not

Yeah, I find this to be a weird thought. "We have to have a good team for ASG year." When has this ever mattered before?

The closest I can get is that it would be nice to have at least one home town boy playing in the ASG. That's it.

If ANY roster decisions are influenced by "we want to be as good as possible for the ASG" at the expense of future potential, I'll be extremely pissed.

[otiswolf1]

batum is better then ross but not good enough to get this team out of the first round. another sideways move. we need two way players with a killer instinct. he seems to relax to me. no real emotion in his game. kinda like T. Ross

[Triplethreat89]

I feel like everyone here is over-valuing Ross or other Raptors players, while under estimating the value of Batum.
That guy is on a contract year. I just don't see him performing poorly, unless some serious injury happens
With that being said, no way Blazers give up Batum for players like Ross

[KeonClark]

Ross and maybe a first? Batum could be what ross is supposto be. A three and d wing. And tge first is a late first. Im willing to deal it since we already have enough youth on the roster. (Bruno bebe dad) Dont need another

Waay too much to offer. Sure we have "youth" on the roster, but sorry bro, Bebe, Bruno and (lol) Daniels aren't exactly "blue chip prospects". This isn't the Colangelo days, lets hold on to our first unless it moves the needle heavy.

[raptors999]

I feel like everyone here is over-valuing Ross or other Raptors players, while under estimating the value of Batum.
That guy is on a contract year. I just don't see him performing poorly, unless some serious injury happens
With that being said, no way Blazers give up Batum for players like Ross

Blazers are in a bad salary situation. Almost everyone is a RFA or UFA looking for max. Even with the cap increase they are looking at a huge salary upcoming

[yabadabayolo]

Waay too much to offer. Sure we have "youth" on the roster, but sorry bro, Bebe, Bruno and (lol) Daniels aren't exactly "blue chip prospects". This isn't the Colangelo days, lets hold on to our first unless it moves the needle heavy.

well whoever he is, i doubt he plays much considering hes going to be a late first pick. you sure as hell aint getting no blue chip prospect that late. youd find another bruno/bebe, who were picked around the same range as this pick