Everything Playoffs 2024

[A.I]

The passage of time showed that Raps were more stacked than both those squads. Bucks were before Jrue with a young Giannis... and Simmons eventually showed his true colors (not a legit star).

Its as if time changes things.

Raptors were stacked too, but at that time both teams were stacked as well. Many people took the Bucks in that series. They won 60 games and were 1st seed. Yes, Giannis' inexperience showed and they lost.

Sixers and Raptors were pretty much even. I believe Sixers would have won the championship if they beat the Raptors in Game 7 and KD remained hurt. They were that stacked. Simmons eventually fell off a cliff, but at that time, he was an All star. They had Jimmy and Redick fit perfectly as a shooter.

[golden]

Well if that's true then coaching doesn't matter after all

lol. Yep, you found the gotcha... for some. Nurse really is the lynchpin for the "coaching doesn't matter" debate.

Based on his lacklustre performance after the perfect storm chip season (zero legit playoff series won & missed playoffs twice)... the only way to maintain the "coaching matters" stance is to agree that Nurse isn't actually elite. Primer and T-Rex are in a tough spot. But if you agree that Nurse isn't elite, then coaching can still matter. There's no contradiction.

[Primer]

lol. Yep, you found the gotcha... for some. Nurse really is the lynchpin for the "coaching doesn't matter" debate.

Based on his lacklustre performance after the perfect storm chip season (zero legit playoff series won & missed playoffs twice)... the only way to maintain the "coaching matters" stance is to agree that Nurse isn't actually elite. Primer and T-Rex are in a tough spot. But if you agree that Nurse isn't elite, then coaching can still matter. There's no contradiction.

The argument hasn't changed. Coaching matters but talent matters more.

[MixxAOR]

lol. Yep, you found the gotcha... for some. Nurse really is the lynchpin for the "coaching doesn't matter" debate.

Based on his lacklustre performance after the perfect storm chip season (zero legit playoff series won & missed playoffs twice)... the only way to maintain the "coaching matters" stance is to agree that Nurse isn't actually elite. Primer and T-Rex are in a tough spot. But if you agree that Nurse isn't elite, then coaching can still matter. There's no contradiction.

If it doesn't affect your ability to win championship it doesn't matter.

[DanH]

lol. Yep, you found the gotcha... for some. Nurse really is the lynchpin for the "coaching doesn't matter" debate.

Based on his lacklustre performance after the perfect storm chip season (zero legit playoff series won & missed playoffs twice)... the only way to maintain the "coaching matters" stance is to agree that Nurse isn't actually elite. Primer and T-Rex are in a tough spot. But if you agree that Nurse isn't elite, then coaching can still matter. There's no contradiction.

This is a silly framing. Coaching can matter, and Nurse can be a good coach. No one is saying coaching is the only thing that matters. Playing with no real C for most of two seasons will do you in. Heck the coaching downgrade from Nick to Darko's rookie season cost us the first half of this season.

[MixxAOR]

League already made it known to you all what they think of coaches. Championship coaches got let go all the time. They ain't valued like that.

Not that I'm calling for abolishing coaching but difference between ain't as big as yall think

[MixxAOR]

[golden]

League already made it known to you all what they think of coaches. Championship coaches got let go all the time. They ain't valued like that.

Not that I'm calling for abolishing coaching but difference between ain't as big as yall think

Yet some think the difference between Nurse and Bud/Lue/Vogel/Carlisle/Rivers is massive. I never once called Nurse a bad coach... he's just not the demi-god that he's lionized to around these parts. And we'll always appreciate his part in bringing home the chip.

So I'm actually agreeing with that part of your argument (a lot of coaches aren't difference makers). Spo clearly is. Thibs is... this season. And coaches can also have down years, even with good talent.

[MixxAOR]

Yet some think the difference between Nurse and Bud/Lue/Vogel/Carlisle/Rivers is massive. I never once called Nurse a bad coach... he's just not the demi-god that he's lionized to around these parts. And we'll always appreciate his part in bringing home the chip.

So I'm actually agreeing with that part of your argument (a lot of coaches aren't difference makers). Spo clearly is. Thibs is... this season. And coaches can also have down years, even with good talent.

Even if I agree that they are good coaches. You don't need Spo or Thibs to win a championship. As we clearly saw 11 years for Spo and never for Thibs

[golden]

This is a silly framing. Coaching can matter, and Nurse can be a good coach. No one is saying coaching is the only thing that matters. Playing with no real C for most of two seasons will do you in. Heck the coaching downgrade from Nick to Darko's rookie season cost us the first half of this season.

There are major differences between calling Nurse a good coach, calling him elite, and comparing him to Darko. Darko had an all-defense team to start the season, and they performed around 10-12th in the league, I believe. Then we lost OG and the D cratered altogether. Not encouraging, but I guess we all have to give Darko a pass because of the roster churn last season. But he's got to prove that he's more than just a meme generator and getting Raptors in the headlines for the wrong reasons... we'll see. The offense was aesthetically pleasing at times, so that's one positive for him. But the smiles and vibes stuff was way too cringy. Our season highlight was getting 1 pizza party. SMH.

[DanH]

There are major differences between calling Nurse a good coach, calling him elite, and comparing him to Darko. Darko had an all-defense team to start the season, and they performed around 10-12th in the league, I believe. Then we lost OG and the D cratered altogether. Not encouraging, but I guess we all have to give Darko a pass because of the roster churn last season. But he's got to prove that he's more than just a meme generator and getting Raptors in the headlines for the wrong reasons... we'll see. The offense was aesthetically pleasing at times, so that's one positive for him. But the smiles and vibes stuff was way too cringy. Our season highlight was getting 1 pizza party. SMH.

What? Darko started our backup PG and cratered any chance of success we had for the good half of the season. The post-trade stuff and especially end of season tank is irrelevant, obviously, at that point all was basically lost anyway. Darko was bad this year when we had a chance to be good. That's to be expected of a rookie coach, and there were definitely good things about his coaching that I hope develop into him being an actually good coach (in terms of the team winning games) but there was an obvious drop off from Nurse there.

As for elite, you have to draw the lines somewhere. I'd say we can confidently put Nick into the elite status in certain contexts - getting the most out of a very good roster, he's done that multiple times. Squeezing high end output from a lesser roster? Not so much. But you aren't going to really win anything with that formula 99% of the time anyway, so it's a skill I value less in a coach. Nick's a guy that can make the moves needed to swing playoff series. As much as you'd hope otherwise, that's plenty rare enough in the NBA, and that alone puts him on a short list of coaches that any contending team should be happy to have.

[slaw]

League already made it known to you all what they think of coaches. Championship coaches got let go all the time. They ain't valued like that.

Not that I'm calling for abolishing coaching but difference between ain't as big as yall think

The top head coaches are now being paid $10,000,000 and up. Coaching staffs are bigger than ever and that's just the piece you see. What you don't see is the film team, analytics team, etc. working in the background.

And coaches do get fired all the time. It's a what have you done lately job. The fact teams are constantly looking for coaches to help them win (and eating massive dead salaries to do so) indicates the exact opposite of what you think it does.

[golden]

What? Darko started our backup PG and cratered any chance of success we had for the good half of the season. The post-trade stuff and especially end of season tank is irrelevant, obviously, at that point all was basically lost anyway. Darko was bad this year when we had a chance to be good. That's to be expected of a rookie coach, and there were definitely good things about his coaching that I hope develop into him being an actually good coach (in terms of the team winning games) but there was an obvious drop off from Nurse there.

As for elite, you have to draw the lines somewhere. I'd say we can confidently put Nick into the elite status in certain contexts - getting the most out of a very good roster, he's done that multiple times. Squeezing high end output from a lesser roster? Not so much. But you aren't going to really win anything with that formula 99% of the time anyway, so it's a skill I value less in a coach. Nick's a guy that can make the moves needed to swing playoff series. As much as you'd hope otherwise, that's plenty rare enough in the NBA, and that alone puts him on a short list of coaches that any contending team should be happy to have.

You can add so many coaches and so much subjectivity to the "getting the most out of a very good roster" bucket that it's pretty meaningless as an elite criteria. And he didn't get the most out of having the MVP and a rising star with Sixers, or "make moves to swing a playoff series" this year... or at any time since Kawhi left. He didn't win a single legit playoff series and missed playoffs entirely since Kawhi left.

So as always, we cherry pick the good and make excuses for, or simply ignore, the bad with Nurse.

And I'm agreeing with you on Darko, except comparing Nurse to him is silly to make Nurse appear elite.

[DanH]

You can add so many coaches and so much subjectivity to the "getting the most out of a very good roster" bucket that it's pretty meaningless as an elite criteria. And he didn't get the most out of having the MVP and a rising star with Sixers, or "make moves to swing a playoff series" this year... or at any time since Kawhi left. He didn't win a single legit playoff series and missed playoffs entirely since Kawhi left.

So as always, we cherry pick the good and make excuses for, or simply ignore, the bad with Nurse.

I mean, pushing that Celtics series to 7 was impressive on its own after having hobbled core players led to the deficit we were in.

And the 76ers were not good this year. Not sure how that's so hard to wrap your head around. Already discussed elevating a less good roster to heights they don't deserve.

It's really not a meaningless criterion. We see over and over again coaches who have rosters just littered with stars AND depth and they can't coach their way out of a paper bag, losing to lesser opponents or getting blasted when they should at least put up a fight.

"Cherry pick the good." It's called being realistic about what coaches can do. Spoelstra didn't exactly drag the Heat to the ECF without Butler.

[The Claw Reborn]

This is a silly framing. Coaching can matter, and Nurse can be a good coach. No one is saying coaching is the only thing that matters. Playing with no real C for most of two seasons will do you in. Heck the coaching downgrade from Nick to Darko's rookie season cost us the first half of this season.

I am curious why you always have the axe to grind with certain posters like golden and I am not excluded from this special attention from you, always going out of your busy day to start a rabbit hole of a discussion.

Yet people (I can pinpoint two) with strongest opinions about this particular topic regarding this “coaching does not matter shit” you seem to find away to go around it. Haha.

It’s not necessarily golden arguing about coaching matters in general but more about Nurse as a coach which we already know he will always not a big fan of that guy.