There has never been a better time to rebuild than right now

[mcHAPPY]

I would very much like someone who feels building with this current core is the the right choice to take the time and lay out why.

I struggle to think of anything other than:

1) nothing is guaranteed so just stick to what we know
2) following an average at best team is better than following a building team
3) when the raptors have loads of cap room, just like 20-25 other teams, next summer they are going to land a huge FA
4) I don't want my favourite player traded
5) seriously a DD-KL-JV core is going to be super elite very soon....any season now
6) Masai is going to find all-nba talent with every pick every year at 20+
7) the CBA hurdles facing the acquisition of talent don't apply to Masai or the raptors
8) while searching for his ASG plaque, Kyle tripped and fell into the fountain of youth with the sprinkler performing a lobotomy making him an extremely aggressive and productive "yes coach, whatever you say coach" cyborg.
9) in addition to finally being able to consistently stick a 3, DD is going to start guarding his man.....on a minimum salary post 2016 at that.

[psrs1]

I posted this in the other rebuilding thread, but applies even moreso to this one...

The stars really are potentially aligning for a 1-year rebuild (tank):
- 2015 #20 pick
- trade DeRozan for 2015 top-10 pick
- trade Lowry for 2015 top-10 pick
- tank to move 2016 pick into the lottery (pray for luck with the ping pong balls)
- hope Denver & NYK are lottery teams, since Toronto gets the worse of their 2016 1st round picks
- huge cap space in 2015 and/or 2016

The Raptors could quite possibly add the following to the roster, after just 1 step-back season:
- 4 lottery picks
- 1 #20 pick
- 1 max player

A core of JV, 4 lottery picks, another 1st round pick and 1 max player. That's 7 young, talented players that could grow together and develop chemistry over the next 4-8 seasons. Add a couple savvy veterans to mentor them, and I can't see how that roster wouldn't be looking far better than the current one, even if all the picks don't wind up panning out. Of course, a new head coach is also needed, who can focus on player development and installing a team-oriented offensive system.

The Raptors could also use a combination of draft picks and other assets (ie: Patterson, Ross, Bruno) to go in another direction:
- bundle assets to move up in 2015 and/or 2016 draft
- make a Houston-esque trade for a potential superstar player

There are so many avenues available to rebuild this team relatively quickly, loaded with young talent for sustainable long-term success, by unloading DeRozan & Lowry at peak value.

Obviously there is risk involved, but scouting and drafting are supposedly MU's greatest strengths, so it's all about trusting him. I think the potential rewards outweigh the risks, especially when the current roster with the DeRozan/Lowry core seems to have 1st round fodder (maybe 2nd round fodder) as its ceiling.

The problem with this strategy is if draft picks don't pan out. The higher you pick the more likely you are to get a keeper but there are no guarantees . If I remember correctly DD was the 9th overall pick--say we trade DD for a top ten pick I think the odds are we will not get a better player than DD. If we are going to trade DD I think we need to get someone back that is proven NBA player-preferably a SF or PF.

[OldSkoolCool]

The problem with this strategy is if draft picks don't pan out. The higher you pick the more likely you are to get a keeper but there are no guarantees . If I remember correctly DD was the 9th overall pick--say we trade DD for a top ten pick I think the odds are we will not get a better player than DD. If we are going to trade DD I think we need to get someone back that is proven NBA player-preferably a SF or PF.

But, what if we trade DD and end up with a Kobe/Duncan/LBJ/AD...or even a Gasol/DMC/Paul/Curry?

We can stay in mediocrity...or we can take a chance of being better, with the worst case scenario is the specific pick we trade for DD doesn't pan out. Luckily for us in that situation we will get to try again the following year until we land an important player

[JWash]

Don't need to trade DD and Lowry to rebuild (definitely need to trade one though). I'm up for trading both or trading just Lowry, but it's not a requirement to move DeRozan. Especially if Lowry nets you a top 10 or even top 5 pick in the draft.

Sidenote:

While I am an advocate for a rebuild, I don't think the fanbase (particularly posters on RR and RealGM and other such forums) has the patience for it. People wanted DeRozan gone like halfway through his second year and Ross about a couple months into his rookie season. Also there's a surprisingly large number of people who think Val will never amount to anything, and needs to be traded as well. And of course the camp of people complaining that Masai "wasted" our 20th pick on Bruno because he isn't already Durant.

If we do a rebuild, understand that we will have to actually exercise some PATIENCE and wait for prospects to develop. Even LeBron wasn't exactly a stud in his rookie season.

[raptors999]

Don't need to trade DD and Lowry to rebuild (definitely need to trade one though). I'm up for trading both or trading just Lowry, but it's not a requirement to move DeRozan. Especially if Lowry nets you a top 10 or even top 5 pick in the draft.

Sidenote:

While I am an advocate for a rebuild, I don't think the fanbase (particularly posters on RR and RealGM and other such forums) has the patience for it. People wanted DeRozan gone like halfway through his second year and Ross about a couple months into his rookie season. Also there's a surprisingly large number of people who think Val will never amount to anything, and needs to be traded as well. And of course the camp of people complaining that Masai "wasted" our 20th pick on Bruno because he isn't already Durant.

If we do a rebuild, understand that we will have to actually exercise some PATIENCE and wait for prospects to develop. Even LeBron wasn't exactly a stud in his rookie season.

Can't rebuild by tanking because Raps are in the worst conference and division. BKN and Celtics made the playoffs while putting forth no effort to win. Team could be epically bad if they ran Bebe and Bruno and all the other rookies but they kept Casey

[aaron.in.toronto]

There are a lot of good ideas/points in this train of thought...

I like some of the players we have, and am in the minority that doesn't mind that we kept Casey ( I have my own theories about what exactly the dynamics were, in the room, that led to the sweep) but I just can't help thinking that this might be a unique opportunity to really commit to this direction.

I have always thought that the only way forward would be to add a player that is clearly better then the two "stars" we have created and (over) use game after game. It has never been an easy idea to wrap my head around... The thought that we would sign or trade for a top-tier player and keep the Lowry/DeRozan/JV core intact. After the early playoff exit and subsequent moments of clarity, I am convinced that we will not be able to do that this summer.

Now that this is basically a reality... I think we should capitalize on one or two of the situations and teams looking to change directions quickly.

It has all been said here, but the only move we absolutely need to make is to trade Lowry... if a team like the Knicks would give us the 4th pick I would do it and bring in two rookies from this year's first round. We don't need to move DeMar yet but it still could be very profitable at some point, especially if we can maximize his value by getting him to the All-Star game at home next year.

The next two drafts, the cap space, and the freedom to develop a truck-load of young talented players is the only way we can come up with a championship calibre star and supporting cast. We will not get a good enough player even if we pull a major coup and grab a Love, or Aldridge type player.

This year's playoff really opened my eyes, even teams like the Bulls and Clippers have super-star former 1st over all picks and functioning, multi-faceted, contending teams that they took years to put together. Their building included shrewd block-buster trades for legit secondary stars and even some brilliant drafting.

We simply do not have the foundation to try and duplicate the successes teams like that are enjoying and they are not even on the level we would need to be at to actually make a finals run. When all the other obstacles we have in our way (not the least of which is the name, brand, and history...) are factored in, I really want a top pick with championship upside, period.

The pain we will be feeling in two years when fully realize the potential of Wiggins and realize we passed our chance at him for nothing more than what we just got... swept, fat-Lowry, brutal Ross/Demar, losing JV and blowing his potential, Drake distancing himself from the brutal half-way rebrand, and Tim Leiweke bailing because we couldn't go all the way on the team or the rebrand or anything... will be real.

I always wanted this but it is still painful to say... The time is NOW. Five first round picks and possibly 3-4 in the top ten spots in the next two lotteries is much too much to pass-up. I love our guys and we can keep all of what we have now (even DeMar maybe..) except Kyle Lowry and still get all this future and a real chance to win it all.

[milesbudokai]

If we trade high on Lowry and Derozan while being able to draft guys like Mudiay, Stanley Johnson or Mario Hezonja, I think our future will be even brighter with a really high ceiling. Regardless our aspiration should be championship, and that will need more than just a culture change.

[charlesnba23]

DD is so underrated

[JimiCliff]

DD is so underrated

Oh god

[Hurricane_Herm]

DD is so underrated

I think the phrase you are looking for is "so under appreciated"

DD's work ethic, loyalty to the city, and overall bro'ness are awesome. However he is a SG that can't shoot, or a SF that can't defend. He has his pro's but just like Bosh you can't win if you treat him like your A1 scorer..

[ceez]

i loathe Bosh but comparing DD to him is like comparing ground up gym mats to a new york strip steak

[iblastoff]

Don't need to trade DD and Lowry to rebuild (definitely need to trade one though). I'm up for trading both or trading just Lowry, but it's not a requirement to move DeRozan. Especially if Lowry nets you a top 10 or even top 5 pick in the draft.

Sidenote:

While I am an advocate for a rebuild, I don't think the fanbase (particularly posters on RR and RealGM and other such forums) has the patience for it. People wanted DeRozan gone like halfway through his second year and Ross about a couple months into his rookie season. Also there's a surprisingly large number of people who think Val will never amount to anything, and needs to be traded as well. And of course the camp of people complaining that Masai "wasted" our 20th pick on Bruno because he isn't already Durant.

If we do a rebuild, understand that we will have to actually exercise some PATIENCE and wait for prospects to develop. Even LeBron wasn't exactly a stud in his rookie season.

uhhhh what??? yes he was.

[Axel]

I think the phrase you are looking for is "so under appreciated"

DD's work ethic, loyalty to the city, and overall bro'ness are awesome. However he is a SG that can't shoot, or a SF that can't defend. He has his pro's but just like Bosh you can't win if you treat him like your A1 scorer..

Of all the posts over the years about Demar, I think this is the first to comment on his "Bro'ness".

I guess I'm getting old, cause I don't really have a clue what that means.

[mcHAPPY]

One additional point: rookie scale contracts, as defined in the current CBA, are good value deals. Under the new 89 and then 108M caps, they will be amazing value deals. For example, the top pick makes 5M or so. Under the 89M cap, you could have 4 top 5 picks signed for under 20M, plus a guy like JV on a 16M deal, and have about 50M in cap room, enough for two max players at 25M each (7-9 year vets).

In 2017, the CBA will be renegotiated, and the rookie scale may change and be adjusted up to match the new cap levels. So these super value deals will be signed this summer off the 2015 draft and next summer after the 2016 draft. In other words, high end draft picks (and low end, actually) this year and next will be the highest value pieces to ever exist in the NBA. The same might not be able to be said about top picks in 2017 and later. Plus the 2017 draft might be hurt by lockout shyness.

The time is now - this draft and next.

Further to what I alluded to and what DanH expanded upon:

@ZachLowe_NBA No one is really talking about the decrease/dip in cap, but league believes it's possible based on its models.

— Jeff Zillgitt (@JeffZillgitt) March 17, 2015

If teams use all the available cap room they're expected to have in 2017, there is a chance the cap would then decrease for the 2018-19 season. (Remember, the '17 spike would be based on an artificial inflation of the '16 cap. Once the artificial inflation of the cap goes away, the cap goes down.)

That could be a recipe for disaster for both players and owners -- for players who become free agents in '18, and for teams that try to lock up players in '16 and '17 because their deals would be relative bargains going forward, only to have less room than expected in '18.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/feature...03%2F17%2F2015

Here are some of the free agents that could be expected....and don't forget the guys who still have not broke out yet:

Here’s the complete list of players set for free agency in 2018, when the cap could shrink. Those with an (R) by their names are in line to become restricted free agents.

Jordan Adams, Grizzlies (R)
Furkan Aldemir, Sixers
Kyle Anderson, Spurs (R)
Carmelo Anthony, Knicks – $27.928MM early termination option
Trevor Ariza, Rockets
Avery Bradley, Celtics
Bruno Caboclo, Raptors (R)
Clint Capela, Rockets (R)
DeMarcus Cousins, Kings
Robert Covington, Sixers
Boris Diaw, Spurs
Joel Embiid, Sixers (R)
Tyler Ennis, Bucks (R)
Dante Exum, Jazz (R)
Derrick Favors, Jazz
Channing Frye, Magic
Paul George, Pacers – $20.703MM player option
Aaron Gordon, Magic (R)
Jerami Grant, Sixers
P.J. Hairston, Hornets (R)
James Harden, Rockets
Devin Harris, Mavericks
Gary Harris, Nuggets (R)
Rodney Hood, Jazz (R)
Grant Jerrett, Jazz
Zach LaVine, Timberwolves (R)
Doug McDermott, Bulls (R)
Mitch McGary, Thunder (R)
Shabazz Napier, Heat (R)
Lucas Nogueira, Raptors (R)
Jusuf Nurkic, Nuggets (R)
Jabari Parker, Bucks (R)
Tony Parker, Spurs
Adreian Payne, Timberwolves (R)
Elfrid Payton, Magic (R)
Quincy Pondexter, Pelicans
Julius Randle, Lakers (R)
JaKarr Sampson, Sixers
Marcus Smart, Celtics (R)
Nik Stauskas, Kings
Isaiah Thomas, Celtics
James Young, Celtics (R)
Anderson Varejao, Cavaliers
Noah Vonleh, Hornets (R)
T.J. Warren, Suns (R)
Andrew Wiggins, Timberwolves (R)
C.J. Wilcox, Clippers (R)

Nine others have player or early termination options for 2017/18 that they would seemingly be more likely to opt into if it appears by mid-2017 that there will indeed be a receding cap for 2018/19. The respective values of their options are listed by their names below, rounded to the nearest $1K:

Rudy Gay, Kings – $14.264MM
Blake Griffin, Clippers – $21.374MM
Spencer Hawes, Clippers – $6.021MM
Gordon Hayward, Jazz – $16.737MM
Kyle Lowry, Raptors – $12MM
Josh McRoberts, Heat – $6.021MM
C.J. Miles, Pacers – $4.773MM
Chris Paul, Clippers – $24.269MM
Nick Young, Lakers – $5.669MM

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/03/p...ts-facing.html

But then there are the looming changes to the CBA that are sure to happen when players opt out in 2017:

Of course, all of this hinges on negotiations for the next collective bargaining agreement that are expected to take place after the 2016/17 season, when the league and the union have a mutual option on the existing agreement. The union, faced with the possibility of a cap that could plummet and surge from year to year, might be more willing at that point to consent to cap smoothing. The league might agree to keep the salary cap from dipping too low if the players are willing to make other concessions. In any case, there’s uncertainty for the players listed above, even if the potential consequences are a few years off.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/03/p...ts-facing.html

I find it hard to believe there won't be consequences of the 2 year cap binge that starts next summer though. Hopefully Raptors can capitalize.

[mengtot]

Beginning a rebuild in the 2015 offseason is not necessary and it would be better to raise the values of the current Raptors players by actually winning. The team will not be able to realistically get a top-10 pick with either DD / Lowry this 2015 offseason. The Raptors should play out 2015/2016 season and go all in with only 1 year guaranteed deals this 2015 offseason when players will be more willing to do so than ever. Any rebuild should begin around the trade deadline when better deals are made or during 2016 offseason when DD is likely to exercise his out clause and JV / TR are up for extensions. What the Raptors do with those players should dictate team plans in going for an all out rebuild as there will be no point of over paying for them and restrick the team's flexibility. As others have posted, the Raptors have a 1st rd pick coming for 2015 and two 1st rd picks in 2016. Those in addition with Bebe / Bruno will put 5 rookie contracts on the Raptors roster for the 2016/2017 season and young enough to begin a complete "rebuild" many are obsessing for. Any cap space from 2016 onwards should be used with flexibility in mind to obviously acquire young assets or picks via salary dumps, etc...