Everything Round 2 (2016)

[hotfuzz]

[Barolt]

I would be fine if Demar came back at his current salary (even prorated for the jump) but max or even close to max for that production is a bad move. That's less about addition by subtraction and more about preventative action. We can get 28 points from somewhere else. We can get 8 rebounds from somewhere else. We can get 1 assist from somewhere else. The list of players who should ever get 42% usage is pretty damn small, and Demar isn't on that list.

To DeMar's credit, he's now, 14 games into the playoffs, over 35% shooting from the field(35.5%), and almost at positive win shares.(-.007 WS/48). He's very nearly a positive player!

[Apollo]

Heat exit interview: http://www.nba.com/video/channels/pl...a-presser.nba/

[Axel]

yes, detractors in general and not specifically you. the "addition by subtraction" group who think that ross or powell could step in not only seamlessly but make us immediately better.

I would be fine if Demar came back at his current salary (even prorated for the jump) but max or even close to max for that production is a bad move. That's less about addition by subtraction and more about preventative action. We can get 28 points from somewhere else. We can get 8 rebounds from somewhere else. We can get 1 assist from somewhere else. The list of players who should ever get 42% usage is pretty damn small, and Demar isn't on that list.

[Miekenstien]

I didn't mention anything about Ross or Powell (perhaps your response is lumping my opinions in with other people's posts). But Demar should be better than them, he gets paid to be better than those guys and he hasn't been. Deng guarding him isn't much of a benefit for us, Winslow and Richardson are both better defenders and they were on Lowry.

yes, detractors in general and not specifically you. the "addition by subtraction" group who think that ross or powell could step in not only seamlessly but make us immediately better.

[Axel]

His scoring helped the Raps win. Every rebound he got, every assist he made everything he did well helped the Raps win. Getting into the paint and getting fouled, thereby running the foul totals up on Heat players and forcing them out of the game, or to play more cautiously or to put the team into bonus could have had a positive impact. It isn't possible to say what would have happened if he didn't do those things. It isn't possible to say what would have happened if he had passed more, shot less, taken different shots etc. Those are all unknowns.

I say leave the coaching up to the coach, enjoy the series win and all credit to members of the Raptors team. May they all do better in the future, and may they play at least this well in the ECF.

Scoring 28 points on 29 shots (more attempts than any other 2 players on the team combined) and a ridiculous 42% usage is not very impressive for a scorer.

One assist - on a shot that Lowry took from steps behind the arc with a man in his face. That's Lowry being great, Demar's pass didn't create anything except a lone time that he choose not to shoot himself.

Demar played well enough if the expectation for him is role player, but he gets the "star treatment" and will be getting the star salary - he simply hasn't played well enough for that from us.

Casey did a fine job last night. Would have liked to see Ross get some extended minutes with how well he was playing (on both ends of the court) but a minor thing in a great win.

I don't understand the "leaving the coaching to the coach and enjoy the win" mentality. I did enjoy the win, it was exciting and monumental for this franchise, but discussing further detail is the entire reason a site like this exists and I enjoy that too. If I simply want to enjoy it without talking about the details, then I wouldn't be here.

[Apollo]

Kyle trumped Vince. I know Vince gets the nostalgia vote but in fifteen years Kyle will have that as well.

[Axel]

Demar was fine. His stat line looks not great, but a lot of the shots he did make were sort of clutch, especially in the second half. He's a scorer, and he's supposed to score, and he did.

I think his stat line looks better than he did on film.

i am not attacking you, you're not a victim. i find the media is quite quick to attack demar. he gets the good with the bad. i find that people who have decided to not like his game will tear it apart no matter what he does, it will never be enough. i mentioned it about whoever did the quick reaction of a game a few games ago.

we didn't win this series in spite of him, we won this series with him. he is part of the team, an integral part of the team, he is a valuable member of the team. the mere fact that deng has to cover him or george has to cover him makes it easier on all his teammates to play their game. replacing him with ross in the starting lineup doesn't replace that, replacing him with powell in the starting lineup doesn't replace that.

First off, I'm not playing a victim in any way. I merely pointed out that my comment was to do with the media and not RR members.

I don't think the media is very honest about Demar. Leo at half time said nothing but good things and showed only the positives (using the Heat's switching to get Deng off Demar). Even the ABC broadcast was sugar coating it, largely I assume because they don't follow the team close enough to really go too far from the speaking notes; talking about how getting to the free throw line was saving the back courts poor efficiency (Demar was shooting 50% from the line on 6 looks, not really saving anything).

I didn't mention anything about Ross or Powell (perhaps your response is lumping my opinions in with other people's posts). But Demar should be better than them, he gets paid to be better than those guys and he hasn't been. Deng guarding him isn't much of a benefit for us, Winslow and Richardson are both better defenders and they were on Lowry.

[Nilanka]

Cleveland would be better off letting LeBron guard Lowry and Kyrie/Della on Demar. Lowry is this offence right now. Shut him down and we have nothing.

Demar can rebound but I don't think last night was particularly good. 8 looks nice, but 4 of those were offensive boards off his own terrible miss where he was lucky that the Heat defender overplayed the shot and lost positioning to him. 4 defensive rebounds isn't really much of a concerted effort on the glass.

29 shot attempts is more than Lowry+any other Raptor. That is bad. 7 FTA sounds nice, but that is the same as Patterson and less than Kyle and BB8, so not really an impressive amount with the overall number of FTA we had.

Demar played badly. In the second half, he started taking some shots straight on (no fade) and they went in. Even though those aren't ideal shots to take, they were significantly better than what he has been taking these playoffs.

This guy has consistently failed to be one of our best 3 players on the court. He gets by on volume and homerism. This guy isn't worth what he's going to get paid.

Agreed on most parts. Thought DeRozan's shot selection was terrible again.

We're in the Conference Finals, FFS. Can't have one guy killing momentum with 15+ misses a night. Awful offensive execution, made to look less ugly with FT attempts.

[Puffer]

Everyone here knows my feelings about DD. But DeMar played hard the whole game. His scoring helped the Raps win. Every rebound he got, every assist he made everything he did well helped the Raps win. Getting into the paint and getting fouled, thereby running the foul totals up on Heat players and forcing them out of the game, or to play more cautiously or to put the team into bonus could have had a positive impact. It isn't possible to say what would have happened if he didn't do those things. It isn't possible to say what would have happened if he had passed more, shot less, taken different shots etc. Those are all unknowns.

We can speculate that he had a positive impact on the game by drawing opposing players to himself, by being there with his obviously very good friend Kyle (who appears to love playing with him) and by being a great locker room presence.

We can all wish that he played more like he did towards the end of the regular season when his assist total was higher and his shooting % was higher and he seemed to be taking better shots. But the Raptors won this series with DeMar playing like he did. And the coaching staff left him out there for big minutes based on their assessment of his impact. They didn't replace him with Powell, or JJ or anyone else.

I say leave the coaching up to the coach, enjoy the series win and all credit to members of the Raptors team. May they all do better in the future, and may they play at least this well in the ECF.

[DanH]

Puffer, the 'yuge' was on purpose

One thing I've really been loving about Casey these playoffs, and especially this series, is his intensity during timeouts. Actually really inspiring. He's never shown that degree of awesomeness before, not even close.



Demar was fine. His stat line looks not great, but a lot of the shots he did make were sort of clutch, especially in the second half. He's a scorer, and he's supposed to score, and he did.

But Lowry. THAT dude was just insane.

Yeah, DeMar was OK. He was fine. That's what I am saying. The rebounding was good, no need to take that away, we don't take it away from JV when he has a couple putback attempts on his own misses at the rim. More chances is good. His shooting down the stretch in the clutch - also good I guess (he hit his one shot in the 4th Q, though by the time he checked back in the game was well in hand).

[Miekenstien]

Corralling your own terrible misses because the defence overplayed isn't really "concerted effort on the glass". Demar can rebound well, I just think last night was a poor indicator of that. Those rebounds wouldn't have been there is the Heat defenders maintained proper positioning; it's not like Demar put forth energy into rebounding, it was simply circumstance that his man wasn't in the right place and Demar was.

Homerism was actually directed at the media (Jack, Leo, etc) not all site members. If you want to attack me, that's fine but you are misunderstanding my words. If the media assessed Demar accurately, it wouldn't be pretty.

Demar wasn't good. His defence was bad (bad gambles on top of his usual poor man coverage). His shooting was bad. His shot selection was bad. His rebounding was his best attribute but only really average production. We won despite him, again.

i am not attacking you, you're not a victim. i find the media is quite quick to attack demar. he gets the good with the bad. i find that people who have decided to not like his game will tear it apart no matter what he does, it will never be enough. i mentioned it about whoever did the quick reaction of a game a few games ago.

i said his shooting was bad, i said he should have passed more, i said he is a player who doesn't make his teammates better. we didn't win this series in spite of him, we won this series with him. he is part of the team, an integral part of the team, he is a valuable member of the team. the mere fact that deng has to cover him or george has to cover him makes it easier on all his teammates to play their game. replacing him with ross in the starting lineup doesn't replace that, replacing him with powell in the starting lineup doesn't replace that.

again those 8 rebounds are real, 9 other players could have gotten them, but they didn't. demar did, no matter how they came. this was a tight game up until the last few minutes of the third quarter, "gut check time", demar shot 50% in the second half. that happened. the player who can't play under pressure and doesn't help the team win both played well and helped the team win in the most important 13 minutes of the seasons. his decision to pass to lowry for the three which you wrote off, this isn't another personal attack, led to a three. that was a shot he didn't take and it lead to good things. there could have been more but that was one. another winning play by demar in the final quarter of a game when we were going on our big run to put this series away. he was on the court contributing and working hard.

[Puffer]

Puffer, the 'yuge' was on purpose ...

Sorry. "Y" and "H" are pretty close to each other. Given my keyboard skills, I assumed a simple slip. Yuge error on my part. :-)

[JimiCliff]

Can't ignore this. Casey and his coaching staff (plus Alex) have taken a bruised and banged up Raptors squad to a place they have never been, against a high level coach and his experienced, quality players. Props to Casey and staff.

Puffer, the 'yuge' was on purpose

One thing I've really been loving about Casey these playoffs, and especially this series, is his intensity during timeouts. Actually really inspiring. He's never shown that degree of awesomeness before, not even close.

Corralling your own terrible misses because the defence overplayed isn't really "concerted effort on the glass". Demar can rebound well, I just think last night was a poor indicator of that. Those rebounds wouldn't have been there is the Heat defenders maintained proper positioning; it's not like Demar put forth energy into rebounding, it was simply circumstance that his man wasn't in the right place and Demar was.

Homerism was actually directed at the media (Jack, Leo, etc) not all site members. If you want to attack me, that's fine but you are misunderstanding my words. If the media assessed Demar accurately, it wouldn't be pretty.

Demar wasn't good. His defence was bad (bad gambles on top of his usual poor man coverage). His shooting was bad. His shot selection was bad. His rebounding was his best attribute but only really average production. We won despite him, again.

Demar was fine. His stat line looks not great, but a lot of the shots he did make were sort of clutch, especially in the second half. He's a scorer, and he's supposed to score, and he did.

But Lowry. THAT dude was just insane.

[Axel]

Game 7 SECOND ROUND: Toronto Raptors vs. Miami Heat - May 15/16 3:30 PM EST

i was waiting to see if someone would take away his rebounds and here you explained them away as other players mistakes, good job.

homerism? special and christian. that is 2. 2 people on the whole site. counter them with oldskool and you. it is still not evenly split between rational judgement and we would just be better because reasons. not seeing much homerism there.

Corralling your own terrible misses because the defence overplayed isn't really "concerted effort on the glass". Demar can rebound well, I just think last night was a poor indicator of that. Those rebounds wouldn't have been there is the Heat defenders maintained proper positioning; it's not like Demar put forth energy into rebounding, it was simply circumstance that his man wasn't in the right place and Demar was.

Homerism was actually directed at the media (Jack, Leo, etc) not all site members. If you want to attack me, that's fine but you are misunderstanding my words. If the media assessed Demar accurately, it wouldn't be pretty.

Demar wasn't good. His defence was bad (bad gambles on top of his usual poor man coverage). His shooting was bad. His shot selection was bad. His rebounding was his best attribute but only really average production. We won despite him, again.