Everything 2017 Off-Season

[LJ2]

Didn't the Raptors have an interest in Noel a while back? I could see JV in a Mav's uniform, as their centre piece to build around. Noel can be that hustle defensive guy Raps are looking for. No idea if a sign and trade is possible here.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...With-Mavericks

[Shaolin Fantastic]

Didn't the Raptors have an interest in Noel a while back? I could see JV in a Mav's uniform, as their centre piece to build around. Noel can be that hustle defensive guy Raps are looking for. No idea if a sign and trade is possible here.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...With-Mavericks

It's an interesting option but only if we can get Noel locked in for a few years to a cheaper deal than JV. If we could get him for like 3 years and < $10M per I'd be very interested in that

[DanH]

Didn't the Raptors have an interest in Noel a while back? I could see JV in a Mav's uniform, as their centre piece to build around. Noel can be that hustle defensive guy Raps are looking for. No idea if a sign and trade is possible here.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...With-Mavericks

I think it would be a terrible move, but even that aside, I don't think DAL would be interested. They paid for Noel because they wanted to keep him long term.

[golden]

At what point will you guys start pointing the finger at the guy who keeps retaining Casey and supporting him every step of the way. Masai is just as responsible for the way this team plays as Casey is at this point. The fact that some of you love Masai and hate Casey is funny to me. Those guys are working hand in hand. I think it's time most of you just accept it. No one is forcing Masai to keep Casey.

To me, the clock starts on Masai next off-season. You have to give this core a full year & playoffs to see what they've got. If the result dictates a rebuild scenario, then Casey will only have 1 year left on his contract and Lowry, Ibaka and DeMar are all still young enough and on reasonable contracts to fetch fair value on the open market. We should also know what we have in Norm & Delon. And Masai will have a whole season to find a market for JV. Next off-season will be a defining one for Masai.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

I think it would be a terrible move, but even that aside, I don't think DAL would be interested. They paid for Noel because they wanted to keep him long term.

Why would it be terrible if we can get Noel on a cheaper deal than JV?

[DanH]

Why would it be terrible if we can get Noel on a cheaper deal than JV?

Because I think a player like Noel would fit terribly with Ibaka, just like Biyombo fit terribly with him.

[LJ2]

I think it would be a terrible move, but even that aside, I don't think DAL would be interested. They paid for Noel because they wanted to keep him long term.

I disagree that it would be a terrible move. Noel seems like a player in the mould of what the Raptors have been looking to replace JV with. A quicker defender that can meet at the point of defensive break down and recover to the basket quickly. He can also provide more shot blocking and finish above the rim. Would it hurt our offence a bit, sure in the regular season when we can afford to play big. If we are all in on this core we may as well be all in on the style of play the Raptors seemingly want to play.

Also can see Dallas being interested in JV. That team has zero identity right now and they need a solid two way player to build around. JV is more so than Noel, imo.

[DanH]

I disagree that it would be a terrible move. Noel seems like a player in the mould of what the Raptors have been looking to replace JV with. A quicker defender that can meet at the point of defensive break down and recover to the basket quickly. He can also provide more shot blocking and finish above the rim. Would it hurt our offence a bit, sure in the regular season when we can afford to play big. If we are all in on this core we may as well be all in on the style of play the Raptors seemingly want to play.

Also can see Dallas being interested in JV. That team has zero identity right now and they need a solid two way player to build around. JV is more so than Noel, imo.

Yeah, he probably is what the Raptors have been looking for, but I think that's the wrong thing to look for. Just have to look at ORL last year where the last hyped up quick C for the Raptors paired up with Ibaka to form the worst pairing on a very bad team.

I imagine if DAL was interested in JV, he would have landed there when Masai was looking to get value for him earlier in the summer (as they had cap room and assets, assuming they didn't want Noel).

[LJ2]

Because I think a player like Noel would fit terribly with Ibaka, just like Biyombo fit terribly with him.

Ah, should have read this before my original reply. Do you think the Ibaka/Biyombo, bad fit could have been a result of system in Orlando, combined with a core of young players around them? We're a vet team with pretty well defined system in place. For the most part, the new players we've had year to year seem to fit in seamlessly (Sully the exception that comes to mind)

[LJ2]

Yeah, he probably is what the Raptors have been looking for, but I think that's the wrong thing to look for. Just have to look at ORL last year where the last hyped up quick C for the Raptors paired up with Ibaka to form the worst pairing on a very bad team.

I imagine if DAL was interested in JV, he would have landed there when Masai was looking to get value for him earlier in the summer (as they had cap room and assets, assuming they didn't want Noel).

This is true.

[DanH]

Ah, should have read this before my original reply. Do you think the Ibaka/Biyombo, bad fit could have been a result of system in Orlando, combined with a core of young players around them? We're a vet team with pretty well defined system in place. For the most part, the new players we've had year to year seem to fit in seamlessly (Sully the exception that comes to mind)

It's possible. I just don't see why those two veteran defenders would perform so terribly just because of those factors. And if so, why would a guy like Vucevic somehow have more success when paired with one of them, rather than the two together? Like, Ibaka/Vuc posted a 105 DRTG, while Ibaka/Biyombo posted a 112 DRTG. That's quite a contrast, considering the defensive reputations of Vuc and Biyombo. For the record, the opposite pairing case holds up as well - Biyombo/Vuc played less, but managed a 102 DRTG to that 112 DRTG Biyombo/Ibaka pairing. All of the pairings were terrible on offence, too, to be fair, so that end is probably more to do with the young guards running the offence. But defensively... hard to make the argument.

[Shaolin Fantastic]

It'd be a great fit. Just don't see it happening.

[S.R.]

To me, the clock starts on Masai next off-season. You have to give this core a full year & playoffs to see what they've got. If the result dictates a rebuild scenario, then Casey will only have 1 year left on his contract and Lowry, Ibaka and DeMar are all still young enough and on reasonable contracts to fetch fair value on the open market. We should also know what we have in Norm & Delon. And Masai will have a whole season to find a market for JV. Next off-season will be a defining one for Masai.

I don't like this line of thinking, too often a coach or a GM only has one run with a team and then they get canned - one opportunity with (usually) one set of players or a limited set of options in a short window of time, and if it all didn't turn out roses they're fired, only to get hired by another team...

Masai's good, as mentioned above this whole run has been with the same core and the same coach. If the next couple of seasons are basically a plateau at the current level, then I'd actually like Masai to be the one in charge for the next chapter. Ever since the Rudy Gay trade he's been pushing to see how far he can build with what he has, and in general the team has been better each year. The roster heading into the playoffs this last spring was the most talented this team has probably ever been in 20+ years. MU clearly has succession in mind when he hands out 3 year contracts to 2 of his top 3 players. I'd like to see what he has in mind for following up the next 2-3 seasons.

[DanH]

Starters vs off the bench.

Wait, seriously? Ibaka/Vuc started the first 16 games of the season. Ibaka/Biyombo started the next 23 games. Ibaka/Vuc started 17 more games after that.

Also, where the heck is this logic when judging Poeltl versus JV?

[Chr1s1anL]

To me, the clock starts on Masai next off-season. You have to give this core a full year & playoffs to see what they've got. If the result dictates a rebuild scenario, then Casey will only have 1 year left on his contract and Lowry, Ibaka and DeMar are all still young enough and on reasonable contracts to fetch fair value on the open market. We should also know what we have in Norm & Delon. And Masai will have a whole season to find a market for JV. Next off-season will be a defining one for Masai.

My point is that Masai has watched this offence for years now and has retained the 3 headed monster that makes it go. He has retained Casey twice. He obviously doesn't see a problem with it. If Masai hated the style of play like most of you want to believe than all 3 would not be here today.

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