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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Guess who played the whole 4th Q.

    Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk
    You should be ashamed to call yourself a fan of this team.
    "Stay steamy"

    - Kobe

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    • DanH wrote: View Post
      At about 105 DRTG through 3 Qs.

      If Lowry gets hurt again like the last two years, the offence will falter again (though if we had a solid defence and he got hurt like two years ago that would falter too). Otherwise I see no reason why it should.

      I absolutely think the Raptors can win two rounds against the rest of the East with the defence they've shown so far. The rest of the East is not exactly a powerhouse.
      This is very true. The rest of the East except Cleveland aren't anything special. And I always forget that Kyle has been injured the last couple of playoff runs and we all know if he's hurting we are screwed on both ends. I guess us having trouble with the Pacers and Miami last year who both weren't great teams is what has me a bit worried. Cause they both did a very good job slowing us down on the offensive end even though we were a very good offensive team. It was our defence that got us through most games against both teams, especially against the Pacers. But you make a very good point
      I relish negativity and disappointment. It is not healthy. Somebody buy me a pony.

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      • The one really troubling aspect of yesterday's game was Bebe's unavailability due to injury again. Relative to my expectations, he's been terrific in the limited minutes he's been given, but damn.
        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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        • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
          The one really troubling aspect of yesterday's game was Bebe's unavailability due to injury again. Relative to my expectations, he's been terrific in the limited minutes he's been given, but damn.
          I've been a big fan of Bebe since I saw him in the 905 home opener last season. His durability is the only concern.
          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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          • DanH wrote:
            But in particular, the last thing you want to do is play a lineup that a) increases the chance of losing that lead AND b) gets you little to no rest for your stars.
            ... and c) increases the odds that one of your fatigued stars gets injured during ultimately meaningless minutes. This is the one that bothers me the most.

            I mean yeah Kyle is from Philly but it's crazy for him to be out there almost the whole fourth against the 76ers of all teams.

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            • DanH wrote: View Post
              Well, in theory that's also the perfect time to rest your stars, which he did with DeMar but not Lowry or JV, which was odd.

              Consider this: if you have a ~20 point lead, you have several options/outcomes.

              You leave your stars in, the lead stays the same or grows, you win but your stars don't get the rest you'd expect of a blowout.
              You take your stars out, the lead stays the same or grows, you win and you get rest (yay!).
              You leave your stars in, the lead shrinks, you are forced to further leave your stars in to close it out while they get no rest.
              You take your stars out, the lead shrinks, you bring back your stars after getting them some rest to close out the game.

              Any of those can happen. But option 3, which is the worst by far (all the others are positive outcomes in at least one sense), is only possible if you leave your stars in with a big lead. While the reward is option 1, which is probably on par with option 4 in terms of middling rewards, and you have no chance of option 2.

              So, in general, I think absolutely the team should be resting stars and playing young guys when they have a big lead like that, even earlier in the game. With young guys like Norm, there's no guarantee the lead even decreases much.

              But in particular, the last thing you want to do is play a lineup that a) increases the chance of losing that lead AND b) gets you little to no rest for your stars. And that's exactly what Casey did - as soon as I saw Siakam out there, I knew there was a run coming for the 76ers. So if you are accepting that run (and you are, if you are putting that lineup out there), why not give them that run while sitting guys like JV and Lowry? Because when it goes bad, it means those guys playing the entire 4th Q just to close out a blowout. Even if you sit them for a few minutes at the start of the 4th, are the backups really going to give up worse than 27 points in 9 minutes?

              Heck, the real damage was done because that lineup was left out so long. They were out there for 7 minutes while the lead went from 18 points to ... 18 points. Even in a regular rotation you'd sub guys off after that many minutes that late in the game, heck an 18 point lead with 5 minutes left is practically a guarantee of subbing guys off for garbage time. The risks are so much lower and the rewards so much more obvious at that stage.

              That's the puzzling decision. JV-Siakam lineups don't really work, and they were lucky to hold the lead steady for so long playing together (nevermind with CoJo, who played the final 16 minutes straight). So why run them for longer than you'd run any unit that late in any other game, let alone leave them in the game tired when it's obvious you should be going to the bench, if not the deep bench, with a lead that large that late.
              I was curious why Lowry was out there for so long as well, but I also noted he was not very involved in the offence until Philly started making things close (essentially resting/coasting while on the court). I think Casey did want to take him out but Philly forced his hand with the late run.

              As to why he had Lowry out there prior the Philly run in the 4th, I would have chalked that up to trying new combinations for the "extinction" line up. I see your points about resting players, but in the context of a few minutes this early in the season it feels like splitting hairs. If this was post All Star break and leaning towards the playoffs I'd be more concerned.

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              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                I was curious why Lowry was out there for so long as well, but I also noted he was not very involved in the offence until Philly started making things close (essentially resting/coasting while on the court). I think Casey did want to take him out but Philly forced his hand with the late run.

                As to why he had Lowry out there prior the Philly run in the 4th, I would have chalked that up to trying new combinations for the "extinction" line up. I see your points about resting players, but in the context of a few minutes this early in the season it feels like splitting hairs. If this was post All Star break and leaning towards the playoffs I'd be more concerned.
                The first 9 minutes of the 4th had Siakam on the floor with JV. How is that trying out new combinations for a bench lineup?

                Resting players long term is indeed important, but my point with this game is actually more to do with short term rest. Having the guys you want to close a quarter with out there at the start of the quarter makes little sense. Just means the guys playing at the very end of the game have as little energy as they could possibly have.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                  The one really troubling aspect of yesterday's game was Bebe's unavailability due to injury again. Relative to my expectations, he's been terrific in the limited minutes he's been given, but damn.
                  Just Is wrote: View Post
                  I've been a big fan of Bebe since I saw him in the 905 home opener last season. His durability is the only concern.
                  "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                    The Knicks are hanging in but will slip back to .500 over the next week or so. Still think they finish 9th.
                    Boston is going to be a 45 win team...Still hard to read the Bulls...Rondo could poison them from inside and they are one Wade injury away from being in the playoffs to being out.

                    The east is a two horse race....add to Cleveland as they have Lebron and no one else does.
                    Too early to get a good read on Boston, they've only had Horford for 15 games and it's a big shift to integrate him properly. Count me in as one of the skeptical ones though, the guys they lost/played more minutes last year had a versatility that really made their defence tick at a high level. They've gone higher profile without necessarily getting better.
                    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                    • S.R. wrote: View Post
                      If I understand correctly you're implying Bebe is a supervillain?
                      If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                      • consmap wrote: View Post
                        Dan the man pouring on the Ws
                        On a soft sked! Dan collecting #fakewins..God I'm so glad that's not a trending term here anymore
                        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                        • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                          If I understand correctly you're implying Bebe is a supervillain?
                          No, he's saying we need to make a trade for Bruce Willis
                          9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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                          • Time to drop 120 again
                            The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                            • S.R. wrote: View Post
                              Too early to get a good read on Boston, they've only had Horford for 15 games and it's a big shift to integrate him properly. Count me in as one of the skeptical ones though, the guys they lost/played more minutes last year had a versatility that really made their defence tick at a high level. They've gone higher profile without necessarily getting better.
                              I really think they miss Turner and Sullinger.

                              Turner is not working out in Portland. I don't think he suddenly became bad but maybe because both McCollum and Lillard dominate the ball and they both can create their own shots. Turner is like a 5th wheel out there right now. In Boston.. it was Thomas and Tuner as the only guys who could get a shot off the dribble or make something late in the clock off a busted play. . Generically speaking neither Bradley or Horford is that kind of player and they didn't replace Turners skill set .Maybe they thought they could get it from the rook Brown but thats a ways off.. and not this year for sure...

                              Sullinger was the rebound king and this year despite Al being in the lineup for 60% of the games and Amir being available.. no one has really stepped into the position of being Windex Man.. the guy who cleans the glass.... like Sullinger did.

                              It was Turners choice to go.. and he has 75 or 80 million good reasons to do it. Danny and Brad may still prove to be right long term on walking away from Sullinger.... but they missed on replacing that skill set this year..

                              I think Danny boy has whiffed this year. Boston has some cap room and two top 10 picks in the next two years from the Nets and then the well will be dry.. and they are going to lose some of that cap room as guys like smart and olynky et all are coming off their rookie deals and are going to get paid...

                              Brown and one of those picks have to work out or the Celts will have squandered an opportunity.
                              Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Dec 15, 2016, 03:59 PM.
                              And with the 4th overall pick the Toronto Raptors select..... Scottie Barnes.

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                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                The first 9 minutes of the 4th had Siakam on the floor with JV. How is that trying out new combinations for a bench lineup?

                                Resting players long term is indeed important, but my point with this game is actually more to do with short term rest. Having the guys you want to close a quarter with out there at the start of the quarter makes little sense. Just means the guys playing at the very end of the game have as little energy as they could possibly have.
                                Short term rest? This Wednesday game was their second game in five nights. And it's easy, regional travel (Toronto to Boston, Boston to Philly). And they don't play again until tomorrow. This is actually a part of the schedule where players can afford to play some more minutes without too much harm.

                                I think Casey intended to pull Lowry eventually, but Philly caught fire so it just happened Lowry stayed out there. I wouldn't read too much into it more than that.
                                Last edited by CNinja26; Thu Dec 15, 2016, 03:29 PM.

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