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  • Your Ideal Lineup

    Since everyone loves to play coach and this core ain't going anywhere anytime soon, I'm curious to see everyone's ideal lineup if you were the coach. Get as detailed as you want and let's assume an injury free lineup.

    Personally...

    Starters:

    PG: Kyle Lowry, 32 Minutes (10 min 4th quarter)
    SG: DeMar DeRozan, 34 Minutes (10 min 4th quarter)
    SF: CJ Miles, 26 Minutes
    PF: Serge Ibaka, 26 Minutes
    C: Jakob Poetl, 26 Minutes

    Bench:

    6th Man: Pascal Siakam, 26 Minutes
    7th Man: Norman Powell, 22 Minutes
    8th Man: Jonas Valanciuans, 22 Minutes
    9th Man: Delon Wright, 16 Minutes
    10th Man: OG Anunoby, 14 Minutes

    Pairings to Avoid:
    JV and Ibaka
    JV and DeRozan
    All Bench Unit


    I like a 10 man rotation, minutes spread out evenly. But if I really had a choice I'd bench our 'core' and start the 905.

  • #2
    Starters:

    PG: Kyle Lowry, 33 Minutes
    SG: DeMar DeRozan, 35 Minutes
    SF: OG Anunoby, 27 Minutes
    PF: Pascal Siakam, 28 Minutes
    C: Serge Ibaka, 28 Minutes

    Bench:

    6th Man: CJ Miles, 23 Minutes
    7th Man: Norman Powell, 23 Minutes
    8th Man: Jonas Valanciuans, 20 Minutes
    9th Man: Delon Wright, 15 Minutes
    10th Man: Jakob Poeltl, 8 Minutes

    Pairings to Avoid:
    JV and Ibaka
    JV and DeRozan
    All Bench Unit

    I like your pairings to avoid. I'd still have a few minutes where JV plays with DeMar, but most of his minutes would be with the Lowry+Bench unit. Unfortunately, if Ibaka starts at center then Poeltl won't play much but that's the reality of having FOUR CENTERS who are good enough to get minutes. Should be working on a JV trade for the rest of the season to either get assets or get some more shooting at the 2-4 spots.

    Ibaka's minutes at PF every game for me would be the same as the amount of minutes Poeltl plays at center. He should only play 4 when Poeltl is at the 5 and never ever with JV at the 5.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think this just highlights the strength of our depth. If we are playing Indy, with two mobile bigs, hide JV. If we are playing the Pellies with two big bigs, unleash JV. Etc.

      Comment


      • #4
        Poet has been making a case for more minutes the last few games.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm going to trot this out to get mocked. This assumes no Delon. When he's back I'd want to find him minutes but it would be tough.

          Starters: KL-DD-OG-SI-JV
          DeRozan bench (end of 1st/3rd): FVV-DD-CJM-PS-JP
          Lowry bench (start of 2nd/4th): KL-NP-CJM-PS-JV
          Closers (end of 2nd/4th): KL-DD-OG-SI plus one of NP, PS, JP or JV based on matchups

          Critical in-game rules: no player except DD/KL plays a full Q. Neither JV nor SI play more than 8 straight minutes. In DD and KL's non-full Q's, they each play about 6 minutes. I'd probably give Lowry his end-of-2nd break from last year, run a small ball unit to close out when not up against a huge opposing C.

          The rotation hasn't really been a problem. These guys need to get up for games and halves consistently. Tough to do for the lead guys on a talented team that could coast into the playoffs, but has to happen or it will bite them in the ass.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • #6
            The rotation has been the problem considering our starting unit is consistently getting beaten and playing worse defense than the 30th ranked Cleveland Cavaliers.

            Why are people in denial about this? Is this about defending JV or trying to get the best lineup possible out there so this team can win games?

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd like to also point out to people that in the playoffs these rotations get shortened, not only for us but for other teams. That means your starting unit plays more, and they play more against other starters.

              This fact is the number one reason why the Raptors always play worse in the playoffs (even ahead of the isolation offense). Our starting lineups the past few years have been net negative or close to it because of bad front-court pairings matching up poorly with other teams. Whether that was Scola-JV or Ibaka-JV last year. Every year we end up being forced to change those lineups in a reactive manner to save our asses in a series against inferior competition. Guess what, we're not always going to have that luxury.

              We should be proactive and change to our best lineup now so that it's playoff-ready and we don't need to make adjustments after already being down in a series, these bottom half playoff teams look stronger than normal and a lot of them have guys who on their day are better than anyone on our team (Giannis, Porzingis, Embiid, Simmons).

              At this point the evidence is pretty glaring that the Ibaka-JV pairing does not work well. They're our only regularly used 2-man pairing that has a negative net rating and the starting lineups with them play worse defense than the worst defense in the league statistically. I have to really question anyone who's ignoring that and saying we should just roll with it about whether they value a particular player getting his or keeping their ego intact over the actual success of the team.

              Comment


              • #8
                Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                The rotation has been the problem considering our starting unit is consistently getting beaten and playing worse defense than the 30th ranked Cleveland Cavaliers.

                Why are people in denial about this? Is this about defending JV or trying to get the best lineup possible out there so this team can win games?
                People can disagree with you about what the best lineup is without having ulterior motives.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • #9
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  People can disagree with you about what the best lineup is without having ulterior motives.
                  Oh people can totally disagree. I just think it's very apparent that some people have an attachment to certain players, that's all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You two need to enter couples counselling ... or the Thunder Dome

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think we should convince Masai to let Dan coach the team for 5 games and Shao for 5 games and see which method plays out best.

                      Does anyone here have that kind of influence with MU?

                      Last edited by GOLDBLUM; Thu Dec 7, 2017, 01:59 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I like Shaolin's line ups, I'd just swap Poeltl and JV's minutes....idc, unless there is a specific match up (ie/ another big bodied C), I don't want to sacrifice the team's success to manage JV's hurt ego.

                        Sorry love the guy which is why I'd much rather just trade absolutely asap.

                        But it's so painfully obvious he doesn't fit with where the league has headed and our roster is going. We look SO much better when we use our speed and length on the defensive end and it leads to a lot of run outs for Siakam, OG etc and it gets other guys cleaner looks when we don't have to wait for a big lumbering C to catch up with the play or slowly run to picks etc. There's really numerous other small ways it effects our team but the bottomline is the speed and length just changes the dynamic entirely. BOS is showing you don't really need a big man n one way to overcome losing the boards is to play some really good defense and ours just clearly goes up a notch when he's out.

                        Everyone of OG, Siakam, Ibaka and Poeltl have good length to at least do a reasonable job on the glass and if we find we are getting killed on the glass, bring out JV. But really I don't want to see him any time before that. Unfortunately that's his role here and mainly what we need from him. I know our coaching staff dreams of molding him into a "Jokic" or "Gasol" but the reality is he isn't a "point C" like you hear Casey saying and his 3pt is not money. He needs all kinds of space and even more TIME just to set up and feel comfortable taking it. Guys like Gasol and Jokic can stop and drop a 3 almost on a dime. I don't mean in terms of speed because of course that's why they want to make JV a poorman's version but he doesn't have that touch, coordination nvm confidence. Then with passing we're TRYING to ingrain that in him but that wasn't a natural skill for him like those 2, JV's assist numbers for years has been garbage. It's nice in theory, MUCH different in reality. I really hope we find him a new home soon and wish him absolutely the best there but his time here imo is done or should be very close to.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Shaolin Fantastic wrote: View Post
                          Starters:

                          PG: Kyle Lowry, 33 Minutes
                          SG: DeMar DeRozan, 35 Minutes
                          SF: OG Anunoby, 27 Minutes
                          PF: Pascal Siakam, 28 Minutes
                          C: Serge Ibaka, 28 Minutes

                          Bench:

                          6th Man: CJ Miles, 23 Minutes
                          7th Man: Norman Powell, 23 Minutes
                          8th Man: Jonas Valanciuans, 20 Minutes
                          9th Man: Delon Wright, 15 Minutes
                          10th Man: Jakob Poeltl, 8 Minutes

                          Pairings to Avoid:
                          JV and Ibaka
                          JV and DeRozan
                          All Bench Unit

                          I like your pairings to avoid. I'd still have a few minutes where JV plays with DeMar, but most of his minutes would be with the Lowry+Bench unit. Unfortunately, if Ibaka starts at center then Poeltl won't play much but that's the reality of having FOUR CENTERS who are good enough to get minutes. Should be working on a JV trade for the rest of the season to either get assets or get some more shooting at the 2-4 spots.

                          Ibaka's minutes at PF every game for me would be the same as the amount of minutes Poeltl plays at center. He should only play 4 when Poeltl is at the 5 and never ever with JV at the 5.
                          I think your proposed starting 5 would be ideal. Long, athletic, can defend and the way Siakam has no conscience about shooting 3's, it's like the coaching staff are telling him the starting PF spot is his as long as he improves his shooting. I'd still like to see CJ in with the starters at SF to see what that offence would be like, but OG has been fantastic thus far.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            LJ2 wrote: View Post
                            I think your proposed starting 5 would be ideal. Long, athletic, can defend and the way Siakam has no conscience about shooting 3's, it's like the coaching staff are telling him the starting PF spot is his as long as he improves his shooting. I'd still like to see CJ in with the starters at SF to see what that offence would be like, but OG has been fantastic thus far.
                            If we want to play this new style and still defend at a high level it's the best lineup for us. And for all the bs talk about how we'll get bullied inside without JV (which is just a strawman to advocate him starting from his defenders, that isn't actually backed up by any quantitative evidence) that's a huge frontcourt we'd be starting with OG (6'8, 7'2 wingspan, 9'0 reach), Siakam (6'9, 7'3 wingspan, 9'0 reach) and Ibaka (6'10, 7'3 wingspan, 9'3 reach).

                            Combine that with DeRozan (6'7, 6'9 wingpsan, 8'7 reach) and we have a pretty significant size and length advantage at 2-4 while being a little smaller in some matchups at center and pretty much always shorter (but stronger) at PG. This while being much quicker than other teams at those spots.
                            Last edited by Shaolin Fantastic; Mon Nov 27, 2017, 02:15 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Strawman my ass. No way do you start Ibaka against Dwight on Wednesday, for example.
                              Just plain stupid.

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