Everything Tanking ;) Raptor still have a long shot at 3rd worst record...

[jbml]

Excellent point!

I see this as the biggest incentive to tanking and perhaps the easiest fix.

What is the thinking behind having only the top three picks up for grabs?

I think all the positions for non playoff teams should be subject to some form of weighted lottery.

[Bouncepass]

Food for thought... if the Raptors had won one or two additional games last year, they would have ended up with the 6th or 7th player in the 2011 draft. Bye, bye JV. Hello Brandon Knight?

[mcHAPPY]

Can we please stop with this "winning culture" nonsense. The Celtics went from ~20 wins to 60+ wins the next year cause they added two HOFers. You end up with a winning culture after you get winning players. An organization's culture is a product of the people in that organization and we have far too many losers in Raptorland. Until that changes, you can pound the rock all you want but it won't win you 50 games.

I agree with the idea of talent is needed to win first and foremost. But I am struggling with the other aspects.

Looking at the Celtics for example. The roster was completely overhauled with the C's essentially cashing out all their chips for Allen and Garnett. They then rounded out the roster with veterans and young rookies. However, through all that roster overhaul, the front office remained the same as did the coaching staff. Would they be considered losers before Allen and Garnett? Did the addition of Allen and Garnett suddenly make them winners? In some regards yes but in others no.

Looking at the Raptors there certainly has been a change in the people associated with the team. People have been reassigned while others have been brought in. McKechnie has a championship pedigree associated with the Lakers. Casey was a championship winning lead assistant coach. Colangelo assembled great regular season teams and deep playoff teams in Phoenix. Stefanski was associated with NBA Final teams in New Jersey. Now the roster doesn't have much to brag about - or does it? Calderon has won quite a bit on the world stage as an important part of Spain. And that is about it unless we want to bring NCAA or high school in to things (which we don't). So yes the roster certainly needs an infusion of talent and winning NBA experience to lose the loser tag.

I'm not sure where the prefix of "winning" was added to the idea of culture change. To get to winning some important things have had to happen in Raptorland. First off, the mentality has been changed from an offensive focus to a defensive one (front office to coaching and now down to players). Secondly, accountability has been brought in which has sadly lacked for a long time (BC calling out Bargnani, Casey versus Triano). Thirdly, the total professional mentality is taking hold; the concept that being a good NBA player is more than pickup games in the summer. Weight, flexibility, and core training, diet, and conditioning are all needed to reach maximum potential.

All of the above is for not without talent. However, even with the talent but none of the above success is hardly guaranteed. More talent is coming and once it gets here it should be in an environment with a culture ready to thrive.

So in conclusion, talent is absolutely needed to succeed and without it, forget it. Defense, accountability and training are necessary components to winning. This year is all about adding defense, accountability, and training. This off season is all about adding more talent. Hopefully next year the talent enters an environment conducive to winning.

Garnett and Allen are perfect illustrations of guys who have talent and also play defense, hold themselves and others accountable, and are notorious for their training regimes.

[stretch]

Thank you!

This winning culture/losing culture stuff is entirely dictated by quality of the players, not by a magical, invisible aura that plagues rosters from one season to the next. Even the Raptors were able to go from 27 wins to 47 wins over one summer.

Improve the roster, and the wins will come. It's as simple as that. Until then, hope for as many losses as possible to finish off this season.

If the NBA would get rid of the draft it would fix this bizarro NBA where losing is a positive.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...itch-the-draft

[Nilanka]

Can we please stop with this "winning culture" nonsense. The Celtics went from ~20 wins to 60+ wins the next year cause they added two HOFers. You end up with a winning culture after you get winning players. An organization's culture is a product of the people in that organization and we have far too many losers in Raptorland. Until that changes, you can pound the rock all you want but it won't win you 50 games.

Thank you!

This winning culture/losing culture stuff is entirely dictated by quality of the players, not by a magical, invisible aura that plagues rosters from one season to the next. Even the Raptors were able to go from 27 wins to 47 wins over one summer.

Improve the roster, and the wins will come. It's as simple as that. Until then, hope for as many losses as possible to finish off this season.

[slaw]

I'd stop if the Kings, Bobcats and Wizards would prove otherwise. The Pistons and The Raptors have had the biggest turnaround with little to no talent infusion based solely on a new coach and culture.

Um, the Raps won 27% of their games last year. This year they are winning 35%. This Piston were 37% last year and are 38% this year. I don't understand the point.

[thead]

I really do like where The Pistons are going. They have some really solid pieces for the future. Charlie V has got to go and Ben Gordon has to find whatever it is he left in Chicago.

[draftedraptor]

I'd stop if the Kings, Bobcats and Wizards would prove otherwise. The Pistons and The Raptors have had the biggest turnaround with little to no talent infusion based solely on a new coach and culture.

The pistons have Monroe and some good pieces. This makes our record even more impressive. I wish Jonas turns out to be like him. someone solid to build your team around.

[thead]

I'd stop if the Kings, Bobcats and Wizards would prove otherwise. The Pistons and The Raptors have had the biggest turnaround with little to no talent infusion based solely on a new coach and culture.

[ceez]

There's a lot of wacky stuff in that post and that's what you picked up on? Haha

[Apollo]

Wtf are we doing? Why aren't we tanking, do Colangelo really want this team to finish close to the playoff and not make it so we draft either 8th, 9th or 10th. By that time, A.Davis, H.Barnes, A.Drummond, heck even MKG are gone and we are left with either Beal or maybe J.Lamb. What is the team thinking, what are the playrs thinking. Even if we make to the playoff, we will be eliminated by the Heat or the Magic.

Aren't they like 4th last in the standings right now?

[slaw]

Wtf are we doing?

I've been asking that question since the Vince Carter trade.

a culture of losing is a lot harder to change than the benefit of the 5th pick vs the 9th pick

Can we please stop with this "winning culture" nonsense. The Celtics went from ~20 wins to 60+ wins the next year cause they added two HOFers. You end up with a winning culture after you get winning players. An organization's culture is a product of the people in that organization and we have far too many losers in Raptorland. Until that changes, you can pound the rock all you want but it won't win you 50 games.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

First, I think there is already a tanking thread that this could be posted to.

Second, I highly doubt Beal is available with the 8-10 pick.

Third, I think the Raptors performance shows that tanking is something that fans and possibly even BC are hoping for, but the team itself (coaches and players) is not tanking in the least. I like seeing them go out and give maximum effort in a lost season, even after being eliminated from the playoffs and knowing that many of them won't be back with the Raps next season.

Fourth, I agree with you... pleeeeeesae lose more games to finish 4th worst at least! lol Or just win less than Cleveland, New Jersey, Sacramento, Detroit and Golden State!

[ceez]

Beal is going top 4, 5 at the latest.

[thead]

ask Washington, Charlotte and Sacremento how that is working out