Everything Terrence Ross

[Superjudge]

So Ross....

Just got the biggest wake up call you can expect via media and fans trade chatter.... I hope he was listening.

Positively, he also got the biggest vote of confidence from his team, his leadership, his boss, and likely his fellow employee's.

I hope, and I truly mean it, that he will use this to motivate, then snap himself out of his current funk.

I think he can be very, very good....

Guess we;ll see huh!

[007]

From now until offseason is make or break time for Ross. He definitely has it in him.

[iblastoff]

Lowry - 2010/2011 season started 71 games for Houston. While playing 34 mpg, he put up 10.8 FGA - good for 13.4 PPG on 42.6% FG% and 37.6% from 3P%; all while averaging 4.1 RPG, 6.7 APG, 1.4 SPG and 2.1 TOVPG. Next year got hurt, got into it with the coach for losing his starting spot due to injury and then was traded.

The last 2 years in Toronto (so basically since Jose has been out of the picture) Lowry has play 35-36 MPG, averaging between 3-5 more FG per game, shooting similar %s (42.3/38%, 42.3/33%), 4.7/4.8 RPG, 7.4/7.2 APG, 1.5 SPG and 2.5 TOVPG.

The only increases have been in minutes, shot attempts, and points. That doesn't sound like development as much as opportunity. If you can't distinguish between the two, then this conversation is pointless.

Lou Williams has had the same stats basically since his 3rd year in the league. Around 23 minutes, 10 shots per game for 12-15 points. His FG% this year is a career low and his 3P% is below his career avg. His assists are also a career low. So while Conference Player of the Week is a swell accomplishment, Lou is basically producing exactly as he has for his entire career. Smart medical gamble by the Front Office does not equal development by the coaching staff.

James Johnson has had no significant changes in his game except his shot selection this year is better than his previous stint in Toronto. His FG% is up but everything else is on par with last year. His per 36 numbers between this year and last year show that last year he was nearly as effective overall (better assists in Memphis but better FG% this year). His game is still the same, small ball 4 with poor perimeter shot (hence why he isn't ideal at the SF).

Demar has regressed this year and it was apparent before the injury. Perhaps he can correct it for next year (perhaps it is due to the long busy summer) but you can't blame his whole season on the injury.



As to this, it's disrespectful and inappropriate. If you can't form intelligent sentences, and instead choose to resort to pathetic attempts to belittle someone, then perhaps you should go back to RealGM where that sort of grade school rabble can leave the intellectuals here to discuss the Raptors in peace. The facts are clear, if you choose to ignore them, that is fine, but don't try insult other posters just because you disagree.

first of all, re:lowry. everyone knows that stats are not LINEAR. i'm sure you're well aware that just because someone plays 5 minutes a game and shoots a 3 pointer and happens to get it in, does not mean hes gonna shoot 100% from downtown if he plays 30 minutes a game. its the same argument being used over and over again about demar's stats actually being better than what they are at a glance because he has such an insanely high usage rate.

so to speak about lowry's "only improvement" being just given more minutes is being extremely naive, not to mention everything else hes gained in character and leadership in toronto, which could arguably be worth even more in terms of growth. to say lowry hasn't improved in toronto is fucking preposterous and you know it.

its also pretty obvious that when demar went down, lowry has had to shoulder a huge burden for 2 straight months and has clearly been exhausted. kinda weird that you choose to ignore this.

secondly, lou williams. yes hes basically doing the job hes supposed to be doing. hitting a career high in points and winning conference of the week for the FIRST TIME in 9 seasons are still accolades he has not achieved elsewhere. as for development? he may have been in some shooting slumps lately but hes clearly hitting a career high in FTA's, which i'm sure is something the coaching environment is getting him to do more often. is that 'development' or just using a certain skill he has more often? who knows.

thirdly, james johnson. the dude has NEVER shot over .464 in his entire career and is now making .612 of his shots leading to a near career high in points taking LESS shots than he did before. hes also rebounding at a career high rate and has clearly been a HUGE impact on this team, despite the fact that it seemed he was only here to shut down the joe johnsons of opposing teams.

as for derozan, blame the whole season on his injury?? hes MISSED most of the played season already DUE to injury. we'll see how he goes down the stretch and in the playoffs i guess.

is this all development or system fit or whatever? who knows. but all these dudes are playing their best basketball of their careers right now, including patrick patterson who you seem to have conveniently ignored because i guess it doesn't fit your arguments.

[Axel]

first of all, re:lowry. everyone knows that stats are not LINEAR. i'm sure you're well aware that just because someone plays 5 minutes a game and shoots a 3 pointer and happens to get it in, does not mean hes gonna shoot 100% from downtown if he plays 30 minutes a game. its the same argument being used over and over again about demar's stats actually being better than what they are at a glance because he has such an insanely high usage rate.

so to speak about lowry's "only improvement" being just given more minutes is being extremely naive, not to mention everything else hes gained in character and leadership in toronto, which could arguably be worth even more in terms of growth. to say lowry hasn't improved in toronto is fucking preposterous and you know it.

its also pretty obvious that when demar went down, lowry has had to shoulder a huge burden for 2 straight months and has clearly been exhausted. kinda weird that you choose to ignore this.

secondly, lou williams. yes hes basically doing the job hes supposed to be doing. hitting a career high in points and winning conference of the week for the FIRST TIME in 9 seasons are still accolades he has not achieved elsewhere. as for development? he may have been in some shooting slumps lately but hes clearly hitting a career high in FTA's, which i'm sure is something the coaching environment is getting him to do more often. is that 'development' or just using a certain skill he has more often? who knows.

thirdly, james johnson. the dude has NEVER shot over .464 in his entire career and is now making .612 of his shots leading to a near career high in points taking LESS shots than he did before. hes also rebounding at a career high rate and has clearly been a HUGE impact on this team, despite the fact that it seemed he was only here to shut down the joe johnsons of opposing teams.

as for derozan, blame the whole season on his injury?? hes MISSED most of the played season already DUE to injury. we'll see how he goes down the stretch and in the playoffs i guess.

is this all development or system fit or whatever? who knows. but all these dudes are playing their best basketball of their careers right now, including patrick patterson who you seem to have conveniently ignored because i guess it doesn't fit your arguments.

So you are saying that Lowry, playing 34 mpg and starting 71 games is akin to a player playing 5 minutes in terms of sample size?

There is simply no need to explain why that is so unbelievably wrong.

Alternatively, you are saying that Lowry's production in 2010/2011 was an abberation; not really developed just a fluke production and therefore "fake development". Then he reverted to a "real" substandard form for the next 2 seasons (1 in Houston, 1 in Toronto) until he was suddenly "developed again....for the first time" these last two seasons?

Despite the fact that Lowry's numbers are very similar across the board, you really want to maintain that he was terrible in Houston and didn't really develop into a good player until (at age 27) he landed until the guidance of Coach Casey (for the 2nd season).

Very interesting but ultimately bat shit crazy theory.

Lowry has grown in terms of maturity and leadership in Toronto; of that there is no doubt. But to dismiss his 2010/2011 production is ridiculous and insulting to Lowry. He proved the kind of player he was (at age 24) in 2010/2011, hence the massive chip on his shoulder when he was doubted and lost his starting spot due to injury, in both Houston AND Toronto - until Masai came in a traded Jose Calderon.

No idea what relevance Lowry's impact during Demar's injury has. Are you saying that Lowry didn't reach his developed status until Demar went down? Cause I'm pretty sure his stats from last year (and 2010/2011) would disagree with you there.

Lou Williams. Can we not just agree that Conference Player of the Week isn't an indicator of development? The number of factors that go into the probility of winning this that are outside of Lou's control are very high; # of games on the schedule, quality of opponents in those games, quality of other (competing) players schedule and the quality of their opponents, other player injuries, foul trouble in a single game, etc. If he were to consistently win that award in a season, then perhaps you could use it as a basis of an argument, but a single week worth of "award worthy" play, means nothing.

As for his career high, it's not much of an indicator of development. Yes, he scored a career high of 36 points in that game. But he has scored more than 30 five times in his career and over 25 an additional 16 times, then another 58 games of being a 20 point scorer. Ross scored 51 vs the Clippers, does that mean he was "developed"?

The only stat that you have provided that demonstrates any sort of improvement is his increased FTA per game. So while muted congrats on that is due, his FTRate isn't his career best .456 in '08/09 and actually ties his 2010/2011 season.

Also, it is perfectly logical to expect a player who improve their FTA as they get more experience. Last year, the top 10 in FTRate, only 2 players were younger than 27. And of the top 20 in FTA per game, 12 were older than 25 - so 80% in both cases. Players get smarter at drawing fouls as they get more experience in their career.

James Johnson is shooting better. I said as much. But is that development from Casey or is he just playing smarter as he gets older and more mature? His Rebounding % is 0.5% better than his previous career high and 1.2% better than last year in Memphis. Not exactly a typical developmental jump in production. If you want to nitpick on fractional changes, his PER in Memphis was higher than this year, as was his FTrate, Assist%, Stl%, Blk%, BPM and VORP. Again, he is producing similar to last year, indicating that he hasn't developed much since returning to Toronto, but rather returned a better player.

As for Demar, he played as many games before the injury as he has since. His awful FG% exists both before and after his injury. So while the injury may be affecting his play since he returned, it has no impact whatsoever to the poor play Demar exhibited before he got hurt.

And lastly, you mention Patrick Patterson and how I "conveniently ignored because it doesn't fit my arguments". An intelligent man once said, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Perhaps you should read the rest of this single page on this thread and come back to me on this one. (Hint hint - I addressed your comments in another post).

[yabadabayolo]

@axel

Basically the gist of what I'm getting from you is that the coaching staff and front office had nothing to do with the players playing at or above their career level this year as well as last year, and doing so in spite of them.

It goes back to the saying, when things go bad, the coaches get blamed more than they should but when things go well, the coaches don't get enough credit.

[Axel]

@axel

Basically the gist of what I'm getting from you is that the coaching staff and front office had nothing to do with the players playing at or above their career level this year as well as last year, and doing so in spite of them.

It goes back to the saying, when things go bad, the coaches get blamed more than they should but when things go well, the coaches don't get enough credit.

Front Office deserves credit for assembling the team. Coaching staff deserves credit for winning games. However, the players discussed deserve credit for developing their game prior to joining the Raptors.

Remember, the original comment (yours) I was responding to ""The one player who's failing in this 'system' is ross. Everyone else has improved significantly." I do not believe the system has a significant amount to do with these players success since most of these players, as detailed above, were able to achieve similar individual success on other teams and within different systems.

There isn't a single example of a player "improving significantly" due to this system/coach. Team record, an entirely different conversation and merit, is the only significant improvement since Casey was hired, but since rosters were different (and Triano was a terrible choice before Casey) it is impossible to say exactly the impact Casey has had.

[saints91]

I truly believe Ross is the key to the Raptors reaching the next level. With every player (besides Vasquez) playing well consistently, Ross has the ability to take this team to the next level. We are missing that player in our starting line up that can punish other teams on the kick out.

I think there are external elements affecting his game. Perhaps life outside of basketball has been difficult for him, perhaps him becoming a father and the events around that are affecting him.. This is totally an assumption, but there isn't really an explanation for his decline.

If Ross can get it together this team will be difficult to beat.

[iblastoff]

I truly believe Ross is the key to the Raptors reaching the next level. With every player (besides Vasquez) playing well consistently, Ross has the ability to take this team to the next level. We are missing that player in our starting line up that can punish other teams on the kick out.

I think there are external elements affecting his game. Perhaps life outside of basketball has been difficult for him, perhaps him becoming a father and the events around that are affecting him.. This is totally an assumption, but there isn't really an explanation for his decline.

If Ross can get it together this team will be difficult to beat.

the explanation is he fucking sucks.

[Chr1s1anL]

Ross will snap out of it. This team need Ross at his best

[saints91]

the explanation is he fucking sucks.

That was an intelligent rebuttal.

Ross actually has a ton of talent, but he's having issues figuring out how to produce.

[007]

He is the only player on the team who is sucking right now. Something has happened mentally, he has the talent to be at least a 15PPG player.

[iblastoff]

That was an intelligent rebuttal.

Ross actually has a ton of talent, but he's having issues figuring out how to produce.

rebuttal to what? it was just a statement of exactly what he is right now, since theres no other explanation we know about.

everyone in the nba has talent.

[ball4life]

Terrence Ross is like those 10 year old stubborn kids.

Like, if you're like "kid, you need to start doing your laundry" it'll be like oo yea?? screw it, im not gonna do the laundry im not gonna clean the room im not gonna study and im gonna run away from this house.

And we were like Terrence we need you to take the god damn ball to the rim and slam it or draw the foul! and he's like oo yea??? Fuck you!! im not gonna drive im not gonna shoot the three im not gonna defend and i wanna get traded from this team.


Superskilled fuckboy.

[Chr1s1anL]

If you look at Ross' numbers this year and last year. Their pretty much the same. Except his not hitting threes at the same clip. I love James Johnson but thus team is at its best when Ross starts and is playing up to his capabilities.

[white men can't jump]

This kid was playing pretty well for about the first couple of months...and at some point his game just fell apart and he can't get back on track.

Like what happened? Is it because he's got a newborn now? Did he just stop putting work in?...Remember that story early on about how on every off night he'd get up X amount of shots (can't remember exactly how many). WTF happened?