Everything Dwane Casey

[Fully]

How is it silly to point it out when the direct point was in terms of managing a player and using a player to the maximum? And isn't an example of using from 4 and 1/2 seasons ago. It's one that STARTED that long ago and literally continued until outside circumstances changed it. The use of Lowry in that manner was specifically BECAUSE he's the biggest example.

In regards to the bold; is misusing a player and that player, subsequently, playing poorly NOT on the coach? Is then using Lowry in the same manner that he was previously being used and THEN seeing success not more indicative of the player than the coach? As the main difference between how Lowry's being used now in comparison to ... say his time with Houston ... is usage (and depending on your definition, role).

In regards to the underlined; this in itself is true BUT in this particular case; the exact same criticism for Casey that appeared from his time as head coach of the Timberwolves are just as applicable now as they were then. I'll provide and link to the coach scouting report from his time there once I can find it again.

So I did get it right then. Bad Lowry = All Casey's doing. Good Lowry = All Kyle's doing. Got it.

[white men can't jump]

People do need to realize how rare what they're asking for is.

You want a coach that's

- Got a good working relationship with management
- Manages players attitudes well
- Willing to cede the bulk of roster control to the GM or at least work hand in hand
- Is excellent with rotations
- Is an offensive genius who wants to zip the ball around
- Is a defensive stalwart

Can someone just name me a coach who checks all these boxes? That is why Casey wasn't fired in the offseason. The only guys I can think of who fit all of that are Kerr, Pop, Carslisle and Phil Jackson (who is no longer coaching). It's not easy to get.

Now you can concede the intangible stuff and go for a guy who does do all the tactical stuff pretty well like Thibodeau, but Masai looked into him and didn't want him. Why? Because he's known for being pretty flammable when it comes to relationships with management and also runs players into the ground.

Seriously getting the kind of coach people here want is just as difficult as getting a superstar player. In order to do it we'd likely have to gamble on someone who's not currently in the NBA and hope that they come in and just check every box. It's tough.

There is absolutely no way to come to this conclusion on Thibs. We have literally no clue what Masai did in the time he decided to retain Casey in regards to other coaching options.

The closest thing we have to info in Thibs is that he decided to take a year off anyway. If this was the case, then it has absolutely nothing to do with Masai evaluating him. Oh, and this year, with a whole new coach, Chicago's players are all again struggling with injuries. Maybe they just have injury prone players, and/or maybe management isn't creating good enough depth to help alleviate the load of certain guys. I still find there to not really be any solid evidence to support the "Thibs runs his players into the ground" theory.

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And on the last paragraph, of course it's not easy to find such a coach. That doesn't mean you don't try. Is Casey that coach? I'd say no. Should we just not try to make the team better because it's tough? That would be beyond pathetic. "Lets stay on the treadmill because making the team better is hard!"

I mean, it's hard to get a superstar player too, should we not try to do that? I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make. We could improve our coach, and the need to do so is even more obvious without a top tier superstar. And even with such a guy coaching can still be an issue.

[Fully]

There is absolutely no way to come to this conclusion on Thibs. We have literally no clue what Masai did in the time he decided to retain Casey in regards to other coaching options.

The closest thing we have to info in Thibs is that he decided to take a year off anyway. If this was the case, then it has absolutely nothing to do with Masai evaluating him. Oh, and this year, with a whole new coach, Chicago's players are all again struggling with injuries. Maybe they just have injury prone players, and/or maybe management isn't creating good enough depth to help alleviate the load of certain guys. I still find there to not really be any solid evidence to support the "Thibs runs his players into the ground" theory.

---

And on the last paragraph, of course it's not easy to find such a coach. That doesn't mean you don't try. Is Casey that coach? I'd say no. Should we just not try to make the team better because it's tough? That would be beyond pathetic. "Lets stay on the treadmill because making the team better is hard!"

I mean, it's hard to get a superstar player too, should we not try to do that? I seriously don't understand what point you're trying to make. We could improve our coach, and the need to do so is even more obvious without a top tier superstar. And even with such a guy coaching can still be an issue.

I think all he's trying to say is that these coaches who do all of the aspects of great coaching at a very high level, day in and day out are one in a million. The majority of them do certain things well and fall short in other areas.

Thibs is a fantastic coach. I think everyone would agree on that. Most people would agree that he's a better coach than Casey. But he got knocked out of the playoffs as the higher seed in 3 out of his 5 seasons in Chicago. He got knocked out of the first round twice - both as a higher seed (including a 4-1 drubbing at the hands of the Wizards, sound familiar?). He oversaw a stagnant offence for a lot of his time in Chicago. He clashed with management and the front office continually. He drew plenty of criticism for overplaying his horses (sound familiar?). Derrick Rose's career ended as we know it because of an injury suffered in garbage time of a playoff game well in hand (can you imagine the reaction if the same thing happened to Lowry?)

If you want to isolate anyone of those things and just constantly beat on them over and over again then you can probably make Thibs sound like a lousy coach too. But he deserves more respect than that. And so does Casey, in my opinion.

[DanH]

We DO have a report that Masai looked into Thibs and thought better of pursuing him.

[white men can't jump]

I think all he's trying to say is that these coaches who do all of the aspects of great coaching at a very high level, day in and day out are one in a million.

Thibs is a fantastic coach. I think everyone would agree on that. Most people would agree that he's a better coach than Casey. But he got knocked out of the playoffs as the higher seed in 3 out of his 5 seasons in Chicago. He got knocked out of the first round twice - both as a higher seed (including a 4-1 drubbing at the hands of the Wizards, sound familiar?). He oversaw a stagnant offence for a lot of his time in Chicago. He clashed with management and the front office continually. He drew plenty of criticism for overplaying his horses (sound familiar?). Derrick Rose's career ended as we know it because of an injury suffered in garbage time of a playoff game well in hand (can you imagine the reaction if the same thing happened to Lowry?)

If you want to isolate anyone of those things and just constantly beat on them over and over again then you can probably make Thibs sound like a lousy coach too. But he deserves more respect than that. And so does Casey, in my opinion.

Which is what Chicago fans and media have done. And he's a much better coach than Casey. It's not even close.

I mean, yeah, they struggled to succeed. They also never had a healthy roster. You talk of playoff upsets, but you don't mention he got a team with DJ Augustin (a player Casey couldn't even get to function as a backup) as it's best scorer into the playoffs (the same team that got beat bad by the Wizards). He maximized his rosters or even got them to overachieve in the regular season. He never had a good/healthy team going into the playoffs, and the only time he did, he got them to a conference finals.

[saints91]

I think there are very few upgrades out there. I don't think anyone is saying he is in the upper echelon of coaches but he definitely is above average. I don't think he gets enough credit for the success of this franchise, if you really evaluate the talent level of the team I think he has them over preforming.

I don't think any coach would elevate this team into the top 2 (GS, Spurs), but he has them in the top 6 (GS, Spurs, Cavs, OKC, and Clips, Raps). That's pretty impressive when you look at how stacked those other teams are.

The playoffs will be the telling story and it will be the deciding factor if he is retained or not.

[DanH]

Meh. Ultimately I judge Casey by playoff wins. He's failed miserably the last two springs. Especially last year when I was sure he'd be fired.

There are good signs (top offence, top players performing well) and bad signs (slipping defence and awful rotation choices) but none of it really matters unless it leads to playoff success. So we'll see.

[ogi]

On the bold...

His defensive schemes are good? Since when? Is this going to turn into another conversation about what he was doing in Dallas? Because that's not relevant. It's more frustrating when he is supposedly a defensive coach. Our D has been inconsistent his entire tenure here. I would greatly hesitate to say it's because players are unable to execute his great schemes.

And does he use his support staff? It's his 3rd crop of assistants. So I don't really know what basis any of us could have for judging his use of non-player personnel as good. We know Nurse was supposed to be the offensive guru, and our O has not seen much change. Greer is our defensive specialist this year, and while we have tweaked schemes, we again have not been able to sustain a consistent level of defensive play (and you see reversion to bad habits here too). Now, it's hard to know things without having access to practices (and I don't mean watching Open gym), but I can't think of many obvious positive things that stand out in regards to use of assistants.

I think you're bang on about "guys getting up to play", at least for the most part there. The best thing Casey has done has been to help foster an environment where guys want to come in to work and want to win. It doesn't really matter if you're great at Xs and Os, and managing game situations if you can't set that foundation.

And I think he's got a good relationship with GM/ownership, but I think Casey's the kind of personality who will always avoid conflict with authority. That also doesn't mean it's as good as it could be. There's clearly at least some disconnect in how they view the game/team, which comes out from time to time when you hear Masai talk.

Outside of Demarre Carroll who is our best defensive guy? CJ our backup PG? I don't think this team is really built on naturally strong defenders yet we've been hovering around 8-9th defensively for most of the season. Even with the serious drop off in defense that's happened recently we're essentially tied for 11th now.

[Just Is]

So I did get it right then. Bad Lowry = All Casey's doing. Good Lowry = All Kyle's doing. Got it.

...that's what you took from it?

Rather than attempt to point out how it's wrong or why it's wrong, the attempt was to actually devalue the point by removing context to fit your narrative on the point or even why you disagree with it; that was what you took from it?

Ok.

[saints91]

I think there are very few upgrades out there. I don't think anyone is saying he is in the upper echelon of coaches but he definitely is above average. I don't think he gets enough credit for the success of this franchise, if you really evaluate the talent level of the team I think he has them over preforming.

I don't think any coach would elevate this team into the top 2 (GS, Spurs), but he has them in the top 6 (GS, Spurs, Cavs, OKC, and Clips, Raps). That's pretty impressive when you look at how stacked those other teams are.

The playoffs will be the telling story and it will be the deciding factor if he is retained or not.

[MACK11]

Outside of Demarre Carroll who is our best defensive guy? CJ our backup PG? I don't think this team is really built on naturally strong defenders yet we've been hovering around 8-9th defensively for most of the season. Even with the serious drop off in defense that's happened recently we're essentially tied for 11th now.

Biz, Tross,Patterson,Cojo, Lowry are all good defenders.

[white men can't jump]

Outside of Demarre Carroll who is our best defensive guy? CJ our backup PG? I don't think this team is really built on naturally strong defenders yet we've been hovering around 8-9th defensively for most of the season. Even with the serious drop off in defense that's happened recently we're essentially tied for 11th now.

Well bbref has us at 13th. As in around average.

And I don't buy the personnel excuses. Our roster has plenty of guys with the tools and drive to be good defenders. Charlotte has been a top 10 D under Clifford consistently. One of those years with Kemba, Big Al and McBob all being on the court together a lot. Those are three pretty damn unspectacular defensive players. Even this year they lack good defensive bigs, MKG has been injured a lot, and they play Kemba and Lin a lot in the backcourt. They're still 9th in DRTG per bballref.

[JWash]

We DO have a report that Masai looked into Thibs and thought better of pursuing him.

Thanks was about to post that I didn't just make that up. Masai did a background check and didn't like what he saw, I'm assuming he held back because of his history of clashing with management and lots of players getting injured under him (not necessarily his fault but it's the truth).

[ogi]

Biz, Tross,Patterson,Cojo, Lowry are all good defenders.

Lowry as a defender if you watch him is really on and off. I wouldn't classify ross as a good defender yet (he's made huge strides when compared to last year when he couldnt even fight through a screen) . I agree with biz patterson and cojo but none of them are really lock down guys.

[white men can't jump]

Thanks was about to post that I didn't just make that up. Masai did a background check and didn't like what he saw, I'm assuming he held back because of his history of clashing with management and lots of players getting injured under him (not necessarily his fault but it's the truth).

Source please