#FireCasey

[Axel]

You're showing a lack of understanding of basketball. Teams are going to make their runs!

The Cavs gave up a big lead against the Hawks last night. Heck we come back against good teams all the time. All that matters is who's got the higher score at the end of the game.

OKC gave up 3-1 lead in the West Finals and the Warriors gave up a 3-1 lead in the Finals.

That's even worse than giving up the lead in one game.....Does this mean they also have an issue with discipline and accountability? Maybe.

Honestly, you can say this about pretty much EVERY NBA team. No team is perfectly consistent. Injuries affect other teams as well and roles change often and sometimes it's hard to adapt.

I think we're doing quite well considering the circumstances.... It could be much worse.

Consistency on defence is 100% effort and IQ - this is what allows your defence to be consistent. This is why the old saying "defence travels" exists, because it doesn't matter where the gym is or what the rims are like, you can always defend with effort and intelligence.

Do not confuse that consistency with that of in-game runs. We are talking about game in, game out, month by month, season by season type of consistency that one expects from a "defensive" coach.

Demar getting subbed last night is far from proof of anything but a one off event. If Demar screws up on defence 100 times and gets the curtain hook 5 times, that doesn't mean the coach is holding the player accountable. And Demar isn't the real problem here. Yes, his defensive effort has been poor at times but it's the overall team defence that goes on weeks on feast/famine that is highlighting a lack of discipline and accountability from the coaches to make sure the players know the who/when/how and put in the effort on a nightly basis.

To SR's point about the record since Lowry went down, this isn't a new issue. This team has been very inconsistent for years now. They can go from a NBA record offence to a barely functioning one at the drop of a hat. This is a multiyear trend; no record in a two week timeframe is going to impact that.

[lewro]

I question the methodology of this Casey vs Stevens study. Not sure the science is sound in the sample.
Im really intrigued by the rex vs DD incident. Counting on you bloggers to do a deep dive and bring in some lip readers, etc.

[Fully]

The fact that you are trying to use the record over a 6 game stretch as proof of anything just really demonstrates that you are either willfully ignoring or incapable of comprehending the point about discipline and accountability leading to consistency. This team is feast or famine because they lack that. Without even having to point out things that happened within that stretch of games, a 6 game stretch is far too small to be considered as anything other than another tide in the ups and downs of this inconsistent team.

Having hot and cold runs throughout the season isn't a Raptors specific problem; nor is it some grand indicator of the level of accountability on a team. Cleveland went 2-6 on an 8 game slide last month with a bunch of bad losses. Atlanta lost 10 of 11 earlier this year but has turned themselves back into a top four seed. The Clippers had a 7 game losing streak this season after a lights out start. You can go on and on. The Raptors are an inconsistent team in the same sense that virtually all other teams in the league are.

You can paint whatever picture you like about a team, good or bad, if you want to focus in on 7 or 8 game blocks of their season. Good teams go on bad runs all the time, the same way a poor team can look like world beaters for a stretch of 10 games in the middle of the season. Ultimately these stretches have a way of balancing themselves out over an 82 game season. For what it's worth, the Raptors have the best cumulative record in the Conference since 2013-14 with 190 wins. Cleveland is second with 185. That's closing in on 4 full seasons if we want to talk about sample size and consistency.

And I feel like I put this disclaimer in a lot of Casey posts but I'm not a particularly big supporter of the guy, it's just that some of the negative stuff you read about him on here seems way out there. We seem so desperate to criticize him that we'll turn a winning streak into a negative thing because it shows how 'inconsistent' his team is. As if the rest of the 50 win teams in the league win exactly 4 out of every 6 games throughout year, over and over again.

[Axel]

Having hot and cold runs throughout the season isn't a Raptors specific problem; nor is it some grand indicator of the level of accountability on a team. Cleveland went 2-6 on an 8 game slide last month with a bunch of bad losses. Atlanta lost 10 of 11 earlier this year but has turned themselves back into a top four seed. The Clippers had a 7 game losing streak this season after a lights out start. You can go on and on. The Raptors are an inconsistent team in the same sense that virtually all other teams in the league are.

You can paint whatever picture you like about a team, good or bad, if you want to focus in on 7 or 8 game blocks of their season. Good teams go on bad runs all the time, the same way a poor team can look like world beaters for a stretch of 10 games in the middle of the season. Ultimately these stretches have a way of balancing themselves out over an 82 game season. For what it's worth, the Raptors have the best cumulative record in the Conference since 2013-14 with 190 wins. Cleveland is second with 185. That's closing in on 4 full seasons if we want to talk about sample size and consistency.

And I feel like I put this disclaimer in a lot of Casey posts but I'm not a particularly big supporter of the guy, it's just that some of the negative stuff you read about him on here seems way out there. We seem so desperate to criticize him that we'll turn a winning streak into a negative thing because it shows how 'inconsistent' his team is. As if the rest of the 50 win teams in the league win exactly 4 out of every 6 games throughout year, over and over again.

So you think it's acceptable that a defensive coach can have a defence that is so wildly inconsistent for years?

This isn't a reaction to any recent stream. This is an observation from years of watching this team. Some variance is to be expected but our range seems extreme.

[slaw]

Of all the Casey criticism, I find the accusation that his teams aren't consistent perhaps the strangest. As Fully points out, the Raps have the best record in the Eastern Conference the last 4 years. It's also a team that rarely gets blown out or suffer prolonged losing streaks. It's also a very good road team. None of those data points scream inconsistency.

Has the DRTG fluctuated? Sure, but is that really indicative of Casey's coaching abilities. Maybe. But maybe not.

The Hawks are probably the single best comp for the Raps in the EC over the last 4 years. In that stretch, genius offensive genius Mike Budenholzer has coached teams ranked 18th, 6th, 22nd and 26th in ORTG. Does that mean Mike Budenholzer can't coach offense? Maybe, but perhaps there are other explanations.

[jimmie]

So you think it's acceptable that a defensive coach can have a defence that is so wildly inconsistent for years?

This isn't a reaction to any recent stream. This is an observation from years of watching this team. Some variance is to be expected but our range seems extreme.

As long as the wins continue to stack up as they have been, and they continue making playoff pushes, yes, I think it's more than acceptable, it's laudable. In the face of the objective production, I'd probably have to mark up the inconsistencies in defensive rating to things like roster changes, injuries, and the like.

[Axel]

Of all the Casey criticism, I find the accusation that his teams aren't consistent perhaps the strangest. As Fully points out, the Raps have the best record in the Eastern Conference the last 4 years. It's also a team that rarely gets blown out or suffer prolonged losing streaks. It's also a very good road team. None of those data points scream inconsistency.

Has the DRTG fluctuated? Sure, but is that really indicative of Casey's coaching abilities. Maybe. But maybe not.

The Hawks are probably the single best comp for the Raps in the EC over the last 4 years. In that stretch, genius offensive genius Mike Budenholzer has coached teams ranked 18th, 6th, 22nd and 26th in ORTG. Does that mean Mike Budenholzer can't coach offense? Maybe, but perhaps there are other explanations.

Shocking, another poster who always defends Casey yet again finds faults in a criticism of Casey.

[Axel]

As long as the wins continue to stack up as they have been, and they continue making playoff pushes, yes, I think it's more than acceptable, it's laudable. In the face of the objective production, I'd probably have to mark up the inconsistencies in defensive rating to things like roster changes, injuries, and the like.

Well the wins haven't been stacking up as much this year and despite largely the same roster, the team was severely struggling and didn't look like a playoff run was much in the cards. Perhaps the additions of Ibaka and Tucker change things, but one would normally expect that a defensive coach who's had years with the same core players would have better consistent defensive performances.

[golden]

Of all the Casey criticism, I find the accusation that his teams aren't consistent perhaps the strangest. As Fully points out, the Raps have the best record in the Eastern Conference the last 4 years. It's also a team that rarely gets blown out or suffer prolonged losing streaks. It's also a very good road team. None of those data points scream inconsistency.

Has the DRTG fluctuated? Sure, but is that really indicative of Casey's coaching abilities. Maybe. But maybe not.

The Hawks are probably the single best comp for the Raps in the EC over the last 4 years. In that stretch, genius offensive genius Mike Budenholzer has coached teams ranked 18th, 6th, 22nd and 26th in ORTG. Does that mean Mike Budenholzer can't coach offense? Maybe, but perhaps there are other explanations.

Lol. You already know the answer to your own question, slaw. The only player left from that Teague, Korver. Carroll, Millsap, Horford core is Milsap. Hawks have had significant roster turnover the last few seasons, in contrast to the Raps who have stayed relatively stable except for talent upgrades to complement the core. Milsap could be gone next year, so the Hawks are still trying to determine what their core even is, moving forward. Pretty bad comp, IMO.

[slaw]

Shocking, another poster who always defends Casey yet again finds faults in a criticism of Casey.

An odd characterization of my posting. I've criticized Casey's time management, EOG management and personnel usage over the years. I've also written repeatedly that I'm completely ambivalent about Casey staying or going.

I do find myself in the odd position of repeatedly defending Casey because so much of the criticism is over the top and, frankly, wrong headed. I believe a lot of it is based on coach fatigue and I do think there is a certain group of posters that suffer from Casey Derangement Syndrome in terms of calling him imbecilic, etc. I don't think everyone on the board agrees with that, including me, so I tend to push back against that sort of stuff.

Don't mistake my disagreeing with you on one hand as me always taking a black and white position on Casey....

[slaw]

Lol. You already know the answer to your own question, slaw. The only player left from that Teague, Korver. Carroll, Millsap, Horford core is Milsap. Hawks have had significant roster turnover the last few seasons, in contrast to the Raps who have stayed relatively stable except for talent upgrades to complement the core. Milsap could be gone next year, so the Hawks are still trying to determine what their core even is, moving forward. Pretty bad comp, IMO.

It's almost like the players matter!

[SkywalkerAC]

I really don't get all the continued Casey-hate in the face of all this continued improvement, winning, and success.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

I really don't get all the continued Casey-hate in the face of all this continued improvement, winning, and success.

I've watched enough raptors game 2 c why everyone has dislike for Casey...Preparation,rotation,defensive miscues and so on. It's same s@#t every year..I don't care if the team looses,but how they do it..when the coach gives games up like hot cakes than we got problems.

[rocwell]

I really don't get all the continued Casey-hate in the face of all this continued improvement, winning, and success.

You don't get it? How about ya watch last 10 road games w/o Ibaka? Casey made quite a few critical mistakes which cost us W.

[SkywalkerAC]

You don't get it? How about ya watch last 10 road games w/o Ibaka? Casey made quite a few critical mistakes which cost us W.

I watch every game...

I just couldn't care less about basketball aesthetics and realize that how tough it is win the NBA, let alone when you're down key players and have one of the younger rosters out there.