#FireCasey

[Axel]

Sure, but really not sure where I tried to say otherwise, nor does it really have anything to do with my previous post.

You didn't but you do seem to support comparisons to offensive teams variance as justification for our defensive issues. The two are quite different - offence is largely successful based on player talent, fit, and a certain percentage of luck while defence is significantly more based on whether the coach can get the players to put the effort in and understand opponents tendencies and countering them. A coach is much more influential to the defensive side of the ball therefore any suggestions that we compare to Atlanta's offence seems foolish.

As for giving Casey credit to the offence over the players, the offence is largely give ball to Lowry/Demar and let them create; so how much credit can the coach really get? Our offence is 100% dependent on the quality of the players to make plays, Casey gets credit for letting Lowry/Demar go get it on offence but I don't know how much further you can really spin it.

[lewro]

D'Antoni might win coach of the yr based on applying his offense to offensive players and harden might win MVP. Similarly, OKC has structured their offense around Westbrook and he might avg a triple double. You have to really tweak your offense to get a PG ten Rebs per game.
In terms of prep, guys shoot 300+ 3s a day. I'd argue that DeMar spends all his time working on his offense so in that sense, yes, maybe the onus is on Casey to get him to play D? I don't know what's said or done behind closed doors.
Again, I agree re: rigid thinking.

[lewro]

Hmm. I'm a pretty big critic of Casey's, but I hardly only criticize him for usage of JV.

Scola, Siakam, all-bench units, late game turtling offence with a lead, Salmons, Fields, Vasquez, Lowry's minutes, and yeah, JV's usage and minutes. I think I've been most vocal about the ones earlier in the list versus the ones at the end of the list.

Hardly fair to say only one of those are the source of the criticism just because it's the flavour of the month.

Like 80℅ of your last two game summaries have been about JV and his usage. "Let's not pretend" that didn't happen. Which is just as much a cant phrase as "raps can't have nice things". Not to pick on you Dan, I'm just irked by the buzz phrases.
I was obsessed with Noel for two months and took shit for it but we got Ibaka now so I'm over it. You gotta get over JV imo. Maybe there's a breakthrough but meantime it's a broken record. Salmons et al are long gone.

[KHD]

Like 80℅ of your last two game summaries have been about JV and his usage. "Let's not pretend" that didn't happen. Which is just as much a cant phrase as "raps can't have nice things". Not to pick on you Dan, I'm just irked by the buzz phrases.
I was obsessed with Noel for two months and took shit for it but we got Ibaka now so I'm over it. You gotta get over JV imo. Maybe there's a breakthrough but meantime it's a broken record. Salmons et al are long gone.

JV's usage at this point is a surrogate metric for how this team is being coached though. stagnant, predictable, horrible offense? well, we didn't exploit a clear mismatch (JV on Thon, are you fucking serious Casey?). Bad defence? Well, let's bench JV then. oh look, nothing improved last night, almost as if the problem defensively was on the perimeter? How are you going to talk about Casey's coaching without talking largely about what he's doing with Valanciunas?

End of the day, if you're casey and you've already decided quite obviously that JV is a liability on D, then why are you even playing him at all if you aren't going to exploit him on O.

It's not all about JV's use, that's just currently the best indicator of how badly Casey is managing the assets he's got.

[DanH]

Like 80℅ of your last two game summaries have been about JV and his usage. "Let's not pretend" that didn't happen. Which is just as much a cant phrase as "raps can't have nice things". Not to pick on you Dan, I'm just irked by the buzz phrases.
I was obsessed with Noel for two months and took shit for it but we got Ibaka now so I'm over it. You gotta get over JV imo. Maybe there's a breakthrough but meantime it's a broken record. Salmons et al are long gone.

Huh? Yeah, I said it's the flavour of the month. Because it is a big concern right now. My point was anyone saying that's the only reason Casey gets criticized has been paying zero attention for the past several years.

I have to get over JV? Would you have told me to get over Scola all season last year? I was a broken record then, lo and behold the coaching staff finally figured it out come the playoffs (way too late, as I had warned in season, and the bench fell apart). I was a broken record all year about Siakam starting - and Pat got the starting job before getting hurt and then Ibaka coming in.

I'll get over or not get over whatever I very well please, thank you very much. I don't tell you what aspects of the Raps to discuss and I'd appreciate a similar consideration from you.

[DanH]

JV's usage at this point is a surrogate metric for how this team is being coached though. stagnant, predictable, horrible offense? well, we didn't exploit a clear mismatch (JV on Thon, are you fucking serious Casey?). Bad defence? Well, let's bench JV then. oh look, nothing improved last night, almost as if the problem defensively was on the perimeter? How are you going to talk about Casey's coaching without talking largely about what he's doing with Valanciunas?

End of the day, if you're casey and you've already decided quite obviously that JV is a liability on D, then why are you even playing him at all if you aren't going to exploit him on O.

It's not all about JV's use, that's just currently the best indicator of how badly Casey is managing the assets he's got.

JV getting the hook (and late entry) in the 2nd Q was hilarious. Yes, with him on the court, they had a 150 DRTG. Unacceptable. Of course, the team scored well with him out there and was only a -2 in 4 minutes. Then there were the 7.5 minutes of Ibaka/Pat where they were -15 with a 178 DRTG. Yay. Good thing we pulled JV so quick or that quarter could really have been a disaster.

Nevermind the hilarious rebounding issues the team had late. The team had a DREB% of 66% without JV. Take Ibaka off too and leave Pat as the C (which, of course they did) and that number was 50%. Nevermind that JV had the defensive boards locked down, with the team grabbing 91% of them with him on the court and JV grabbing 33% by himself.

[lewro]

JV's usage at this point is a surrogate metric for how this team is being coached though. stagnant, predictable, horrible offense? well, we didn't exploit a clear mismatch (JV on Thon, are you fucking serious Casey?). Bad defence? Well, let's bench JV then. oh look, nothing improved last night, almost as if the problem defensively was on the perimeter? How are you going to talk about Casey's coaching without talking largely about what he's doing with Valanciunas?

End of the day, if you're casey and you've already decided quite obviously that JV is a liability on D, then why are you even playing him at all if you aren't going to exploit him on O.

It's not all about JV's use, that's just currently the best indicator of how badly Casey is managing the assets he's got.

It's a point of concern but JV is a role player on this team. I put him in the convo with PJ, Pat and dmc.
I'm more concerned with his over usage of our stars, Kyle and DeMar, and now seems like Ibaka too. Yes, you can make an argument to increase jvs usage and mins by extension to help offset the load but my first concern is injury. We have 4 pgs on this team and we did have a glut of SGs when Ross was here. It's not all about jv.
I'm not a doctor so I can't pin lowrys wrist on Casey but there is a pattern of burning our best player out by this point in the yr. I've been an advocate of Delon and fvv all yr and we know what good Cory is capable of. Yes, Cory has got mins in two guard lineups (Lowry still gets mins) and Delon hasnt been healthy. However, depth is a strength of this team and that's a credit to masai but I don't think Casey really exploits all his options unless forced to by injury. I don't think that's good coaching.
As we approach a summer of tough financial decisions, I don't think Casey has given masai enough data to inform all of our decisions. Again, Delon was hurt but he could have played last yr - this is a pattern. Once you lock down Lowry and Ibaka, you really need to know what you have in depth players on the bench to save money. This was a key topic by woj and marks in their recent pod re: raps offseason.
In the grand scheme, I think our window really starts when Lowry and Ibaka sign long term so right now is still a proving ground imo. That doesn't happen if Lowry plays 40 mins. Casey is too insecure and we see that he doesn't trust JV but the same can be said of many players, just like JJ. My point is, the convo revolves around JV when I think it's just one symptom of a larger and related problem.
Far be it from me to try to control or silence the dialogue - suit yourselves! I'm just a little bored of it and interested in other dialogues at this point.

[lewro]

JV getting the hook (and late entry) in the 2nd Q was hilarious. Yes, with him on the court, they had a 150 DRTG. Unacceptable. Of course, the team scored well with him out there and was only a -2 in 4 minutes. Then there were the 7.5 minutes of Ibaka/Pat where they were -15 with a 178 DRTG. Yay. Good thing we pulled JV so quick or that quarter could really have been a disaster.

Nevermind the hilarious rebounding issues the team had late. The team had a DREB% of 66% without JV. Take Ibaka off too and leave Pat as the C (which, of course they did) and that number was 50%. Nevermind that JV had the defensive boards locked down, with the team grabbing 91% of them with him on the court and JV grabbing 33% by himself.

Yeah, I'm on the edge of my seat with Pat at 5. That's looking like it could be a pattern. Dangerous!

[lewro]

Huh? Yeah, I said it's the flavour of the month. Because it is a big concern right now. My point was anyone saying that's the only reason Casey gets criticized has been paying zero attention for the past several years.

I have to get over JV? Would you have told me to get over Scola all season last year? I was a broken record then, lo and behold the coaching staff finally figured it out come the playoffs (way too late, as I had warned in season, and the bench fell apart). I was a broken record all year about Siakam starting - and Pat got the starting job before getting hurt and then Ibaka coming in.

I'll get over or not get over whatever I very well please, thank you very much. I don't tell you what aspects of the Raps to discuss and I'd appreciate a similar consideration from you.

I don't know how many times youve said "is this really still a thing" or "let's not pretend" or "foolish thinking" amongst other non-starters/silencing rhetoric to me and my ideas. And I've asked you to stop was well.
You can talk about whatever you want but the JV thing is old. Scola et al are talking points but not summations. JV has been a filter for almost every facet of your last two summaries.
Let's be clear, I like and appreciate your summaries (i think everyone does) but I am responding with a differing perspective and criticism re: the game and JV. Of course you can talk about it; I'm just saying it's the same argument for a long time and there's other things to talk about.

[DanH]

I don't know how many times youve said "is this really still a thing" or "let's not pretend" or "foolish thinking" amongst other non-starters/silencing rhetoric to me and my ideas. And I've asked you to stop was well.
You can talk about whatever you want but the JV thing is old. Scola et al are talking points but not summations. JV has been a filter for almost every facet of your last two summaries.
Let's be clear, I like and appreciate your summaries (i think everyone does) but I am responding with a differing perspective and criticism re: the game and JV. Of course you can talk about it; I'm just saying it's the same argument for a long time and there's other things to talk about.

You can call my thinking as foolish as you like. That's your prerogative. That's the point of these discussion boards.

I am actually capable of remembering things that happened more than 5 minutes ago, so I am aware that this has been a recurring argument. If you do not wish to partake, please feel free to ignore the discussion rather than telling others they should let it go.

[lewro]

You can call my thinking as foolish as you like. That's your prerogative. That's the point of these discussion boards.

I am actually capable of remembering things that happened more than 5 minutes ago, so I am aware that this has been a recurring argument. If you do not wish to partake, please feel free to ignore the discussion rather than telling others they should let it go.

I didn't call you foolish or "silly". I don't think that. I just don't think that JV plays such a huge role in all things raps such as #firecasey like he does in your posts.
It's not just Casey, I'm not sure the organization is commited to JV either. Seems like serge wants to be a 5 ( based on woj pod) and I'd imagine masai discussed this prior to the trade. Casey might get fired but I don't think JV plays a big part in that.
Of course, we are both free to discuss, I just feel like we've spent a long time talking about JV vs a rim protector and now we have a rim protector. #firecasey is gonna be more based on the success of Ibaka now than JV. I don't see why JV has to be such a persistent focus?

[Uncle_Si]

It would be nice if the raptors had some spacing. With KLOW out, the only real threat from behind the arc is Ibaka, and he can't create his own shot. Carroll hasn't been able to hit anything post all star break and Patterson has been inconsistent.

That leaves teams free to pack the paint and blitz DeRozan because even if he passes out of a double there's no one that scares them that will hit a 3.

That's an issue for JV too, paint is packed, where's he supposed to go?

[LJ2]

JV's usage at this point is a surrogate metric for how this team is being coached though. stagnant, predictable, horrible offense? well, we didn't exploit a clear mismatch (JV on Thon, are you fucking serious Casey?). Bad defence? Well, let's bench JV then. oh look, nothing improved last night, almost as if the problem defensively was on the perimeter? How are you going to talk about Casey's coaching without talking largely about what he's doing with Valanciunas?

End of the day, if you're casey and you've already decided quite obviously that JV is a liability on D, then why are you even playing him at all if you aren't going to exploit him on O.

It's not all about JV's use, that's just currently the best indicator of how badly Casey is managing the assets he's got.

How many teams change their game plan based on match up's during the regular season? Heck even during the playoffs you don't totally change your style of play. Players aren't that smart or conditioned to change their style from game to game based on the match up.

[KHD]

How many teams change their game plan based on match up's during the regular season? Heck even during the playoffs you don't totally change your style of play. Players aren't that smart or conditioned to change their style from game to game based on the match up.

uh, what?

nba teams hammer at matchup advantages all game long. except us, apparently.

[LJ2]

But you're talking about changing their style of play. They aren't going to post JV up for 20 times against one team then revert to the guard heavy offence the next game, and so on based on match up's.