Everything OG Anunoby

[TheWaterboy]

Lol. I love OG, man. He’s very good. I was just asking for irrefutable proof that OG is elite on defense, which people keep saying. I haven’t seen any yet, but I want to believe.

If you want proof to be irrefutable, we need to come to some form of mutual agreement of what "elite" means in this context.

[Primer]

You don't expect more shots for the Rookie of the year? And you gotta think we end up with a little more health than we had this year, I just don't see this opportunity for OG to carve out a bigger shot taking role than he already had. He's not terribly efficient, I'm pretty OK with the 14.5 he had last year. We do not need to hand him any keys to keep his agent happy, he's probably our 5th option creating his own look off the bounce next season.

Replacing Trent with precious in the starting lineup frees up 8 shots, OG can have 2 of those and so can Scottie, that would get OG up to Fred's level of shots. I also think Fred takes a few less shots since he will be off ball. I think it's definitely doable to have OG be a 20pt per game guy next season. He's a good FT shooter, could easily happen by getting to the line a bit more also.

[slaw]

If you want proof to be irrefutable, we need to come to some form of mutual agreement of what "elite" means in this context.

That's a good question. I would say his versatility in guarding 1-5 fairly effectively is pretty unique and highly valuable to a roster, so perhaps he is elite in that regard? I would say he also has great instincts when it comes to his positioning and ability to cover up for holes in the defence, which isn't something easily quantifiable. Is he one of the best at it? Don't know and I ain't watching 2000 games a season to find out.

I'd still argue Pascal is the Raps best team defensive player.

[slaw]

Replacing Trent with precious in the starting lineup frees up 8 shots, OG can have 2 of those and so can Scottie, that would get OG up to Fred's level of shots. I also think Fred takes a few less shots since he will be off ball. I think it's definitely doable to have OG be a 20pt per game guy next season. He's a good FT shooter, could easily happen by getting to the line a bit more also.

Not sure that's how it works....

[golden]

That's a good question. I would say his versatility in guarding 1-5 fairly effectively is pretty unique and highly valuable to a roster, so perhaps he is elite in that regard? I would say he also has great instincts when it comes to his positioning and ability to cover up for holes in the defence, which isn't something easily quantifiable. Is he one of the best at it? Don't know and I ain't watching 2000 games a season to find out.

I'd still argue Pascal is the Raps best team defensive player.

Not debating versatility, but you also have to define “effective” then. OG has great moments, but the numbers don’t show that effectiveness consistently. Could be that the system asks him to be out of position too much, like Dan and I were musing.

The other question is: why does that effectiveness show up for other players, but not OG.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not debating versatility, but you also have to define “effective” then. OG has great moments, but the numbers don’t show that effectiveness consistently. Could be that the system asks him to be out of position too much, like Dan and I were musing.

The other question is: why does that effectiveness show up for other players, but not OG.

which numbers are you referring to specifically?


When you say out of position ar you suggesting changing who he guards? or stylistically?

[DanH]

Lol. I love OG, man. He’s very good. I was just asking for irrefutable proof that OG is elite on defense, which people keep saying. I haven’t seen any yet, but I want to believe.

Oh, is that what you were asking for? None of my posts have been an attempt at that. I thought you phrased it such that you wanted to have a discussion about how OG is an elite defender but doesn't post broadly elite impact numbers on that end.

If you want irrefutable proof of elite defence you will never find it, the best numbers we have on defence are riddled with context and limitations.

[Primer]

Not sure that's how it works....

You giving Precious 16 shots a game? I'm sure as hell not. He can get all the put backs he wants and occasional wide open 3. Trent steals shots from other bench guys since they're not good for the most part.

[G__Deane]

he definitely isn't lumbering htough

He doesn't have the twitch nerve reflexes fast enough to get up up to lumbering

[Primer]

Oh, is that what you were asking for? None of my posts have been an attempt at that. I thought you phrased it such that you wanted to have a discussion about how OG is an elite defender but doesn't post broadly elite impact numbers on that end.

If you want irrefutable proof of elite defence you will never find it, the best numbers we have on defence are riddled with context and limitations.

Top analysts like Zach Lowe say he is elite. That's the closest you will get. Takes watching tons of games to know who is elite defensively.

[planetmars]

You giving Precious 16 shots a game? I'm sure as hell not. He can get all the put backs he wants and occasional wide open 3. Trent steals shots from other bench guys since they're not good for the most part.

So Trent's only playing 20mpg?

[Primer]

So Trent's only playing 20mpg?

Nope, he gets minutes from every starter so they don't have to play record setting minutes. He can also have every bench minute that wasn't Boucher or Thad.

[planetmars]

Nope, he gets minutes from every starter so they don't have to play record setting minutes. He can also have every bench minute that wasn't Boucher or Thad.

Yeah so the shot distribution isn't going to work the way you expect it to.

[slaw]

Not debating versatility, but you also have to define “effective” then. OG has great moments, but the numbers don’t show that effectiveness consistently. Could be that the system asks him to be out of position too much, like Dan and I were musing.

The other question is: why does that effectiveness show up for other players, but not OG.

I don't put much stock in defensive metrics for basketball, so what they have to say about OG (or any other player) means very little to me. There is likely something to a wisdom of the crowds argument but they don't seem very useful or helpful (by way of example, Brook Lopez everybody!).

As for "effective", I might be tempted to say that the Raptors continue to have OG defend 1-5 and have for multiple seasons now cause he is effective at it. QED.

[slaw]

You giving Precious 16 shots a game? I'm sure as hell not. He can get all the put backs he wants and occasional wide open 3. Trent steals shots from other bench guys since they're not good for the most part.

That's not at all how shot distribution works.... teams don't have a plan as to how many shots guys are going to take in any given game, let alone across 82 games.Shot distribution sorts itself out over time and may, or may not, go the way teams think it will.