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Brandon wrote: View PostI think a player getting that kind of scratch had better be adding 10-15 wins to his team's totals at the end of a season,a nd there's no precedent for that in Bargnani's past.
Also, where are you getting these 10-15 wins from? How does one proven that a player added ten wins to his club?
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Apollo wrote: View PostPeople don't get contracts based on what they've done, they get contracts based on what managers think they can do in the future. That's why you see young unproven guys get big contracts while 30 somethings at the end of their careers are signing for the vet minimum.
Also, where are you getting these 10-15 wins from? How does one proven that a player added ten wins to his club?
I'm deliberately mentioning those HOF-type players because they're the only ones I'd give a big contract to. I think Jordan was right this summer when he said that the middling players are getting too much money. The Raps gave Bargnani and Calderon big contracts and Amir Johnson and Linas Kleiza fairly big ones, and what have they got for it? The team sucks. Their suckage wouldn't be very much worse without those guys.
I've read your arguments about building a team, and how you think these guys are necessary and whatnot. But I think you build a team with stars first. Stars, and lots of them. Then, after that's done, you can go out and get middling players to round things out. Over and over we've seen that having too many big contracts on the books hurts a team's ability to bring in stars. Look at Miami and the Clippers, for example. I don't care if you draft them or sign them or trade for them, but this is a star's league exclusively. If you don't have a few of the top 30 players on your team you aren't in the conversation.
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Brandon wrote: View PostI've read your arguments about building a team, and how you think these guys are necessary and whatnot. But I think you build a team with stars first. Stars, and lots of them. Then, after that's done, you can go out and get middling players to round things out. Over and over we've seen that having too many big contracts on the books hurts a team's ability to bring in stars. Look at Miami and the Clippers, for example. I don't care if you draft them or sign them or trade for them, but this is a star's league exclusively. If you don't have a few of the top 30 players on your team you aren't in the conversation.
One: You get lucky and land a star or two in the Draft. The Thunder are a good example of this working out well. They sucked, they picked the right guys and now they're a legitimate force.
Two: You put together solid pieces, draft one legitimate talent, and the winning draws in the stars. Chicago did a nice job in accumulating good pieces that really accent D. Rose. With the winning, every time a notable free agent is looking, Chicago comes up in the conversation.
New Jersey snapped their fingers and gave up everything for their star.. But without the solid pieces around him it's just wasted. Other stars aren't exactly clamoring to go lose with him in Brooklyn. Or maybe next year I'll eat my words.. The Raps are doing all they can do. Getting some good complimentary pieces, sucking enough to strike gold in the draft, and leaving cap space to accommodate a star when the stars align and the winning happens. Next years draft will be the deciding point just how bright the near future is for these Raptors.
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Brandon, $10M/yr is nothing close to max money. Franchise players get the max money deals. Jordan was making $30M/yr in '98. Shaq was making it right into his Miami days. If you want to talk bad deal let's talk Lewis and Arenas clearing well over $20M/yr. Go look up guys making in around $10M/yr and I guarantee you that Andrea is as impactful right now as most of them.
Calderon was given fair market value. He was playing outstanding basketball when he was up for a contract and the Raptors had two choices, keep T.J., who was no longer getting along with Bosh, or keep Calderon and give him what he was worth at the time. They went with the guy who was saying all right things, getting along with everybody and staying healthy. If it wasn't Toronto somebody else would have given him that money the way he was playing. Amir's contract is not bad. Colangelo gave him a deal he felt Amir was worth and it's worked out really well. It looked risky when it was signed but I really don't know how you can sit there and criticize it now. For the play Amir gives them it's a high value contract and not to mention he could easily be moved tomorrow if they decided it was best for the team. Kleiza was a bad deal but it was also a relatively small deal as well which could easily be amnestied if need be. I think you need to turn down your hindsight goggles here a bit because it's clouding the discussion.
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The comments that went off track on to Amir have been moved here:
http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...s-Amir-Johnson
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DeMar speaking highly on Bargnani
“It starts with Dre’ (Andrea Bargnani) and myself,” DeRozan tells HOOPSWORLD. “We try and take that challenge and have everyone else feed off of our energy. It’s a role that both of us are going to have to take on and it should be fun.”
Of course, part of the reason DeRozan’s scoring is down is that Bargnani is scoring at a career-best clip of 22.3 points per game. DeRozan sees a difference in his front court mate, who has been asked to step his game up considerably under Coach Casey.
“Oh yeah, definitely. Whether it’s rebounding or just impacting the ball on the defensive end, he’s definitely big for us. I don’t think people get a chance to see it but he’s definitely been putting in hard work and he’s shown people that he can play on the defensive end.”
Source: HoopsWorld.com
Normally you'd say, "Yeah, well he is his teammate, of course he is going to speak highly of him."
However, last year numerous people called out Bargnani in the exit-interviews exit (i.e. reporters waiting) so I don't think he'd say it if he didn't mean it.
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Matt52 wrote: View PostSource: HoopsWorld.com
Normally you'd say, "Yeah, well he is his teammate, of course he is going to speak highly of him."
However, last year numerous people called out Bargnani in the exit-interviews exit (i.e. reporters waiting) so I don't think he'd say it if he didn't mean it.
Yeah, including him. Well, he didnt say it directly(and nobody really would in that situation anyways) but i remember him saying that they badly need a center who can dominate the paint, protect the rim, provide help defense and rebound. Well, Bargnani was pretty much the one playing that spot the whole year, so i dont know, maybe Demar was talking about, um, hhhmmm, Dorsey?? hahaha.
I think "Dre" should come out and say, well, we'd be in a better spot right now if i didnt have to do all the scoring, we dont seem to get any production from our SG, whoever is playing that spot....and then next year "Dre" will call Demar "Roz" or maybe "De-De" (pronounced as Dey-Dey).
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Matt52 wrote: View PostSource: HoopsWorld.com
Normally you'd say, "Yeah, well he is his teammate, of course he is going to speak highly of him."
However, last year numerous people called out Bargnani in the exit-interviews exit (i.e. reporters waiting) so I don't think he'd say it if he didn't mean it.
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yertu damkule wrote: View Posthmm...i always thought it was 'grainwise.'If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?
Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.
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Apollo wrote: View PostJerome Williams is not dumb. I just want to have that on the record before I have to testify to Congress.If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?
Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.
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