Everything Derozan

[Nilanka]

Played with Vince for a year plus.

True, his rookie year. But the point I was trying to make was that Bosh didn't have a fellow allstar to help carry the load, like DeRozan has in Lowry. Bosh was a 1-man show carrying those teams to the playoffs.

IMO, this is what makes it very close between Bosh and DeRozan on all-time list.

[golden]

Strongly recommend reading this article on the way the Raps screen for DeMar. Very good read.

http://fansided.com/2016/11/30/demar...oll-3-pointer/

It's interesting to see the extent that the Raptors have gone as a team & system to hide DeMar's flaws and build on his specific strengths. Really illustrates the sensitivity of timing, fit, roster and coaching upon player development and arc of their careers.

DeMar got a lot of low-pressure reps early under Triano, and then was able to have Casey tailor the Raps system to his and Lowry's specific styles. In another team or situation, DD might have ended up like a saner version of Nick Young or O.J. Mayo, who have similar type of high volume mid-range games.

[Nilanka]

Strongly recommend reading this article on the way the Raps screen for DeMar. Very good read.

http://fansided.com/2016/11/30/demar...oll-3-pointer/

Ya, great read indeed. Easy to miss these subtleties when watching live.

The amount of space DeRozan creates on Kanter with a rather simple step-back, is hilarious.

[tDotted]

Strongly recommend reading this article on the way the Raps screen for DeMar. Very good read.

http://fansided.com/2016/11/30/demar...oll-3-pointer/

Hard to really appreciate this stuff in the middle of a game. Clever stuff by Casey and the staff

[Lupe]

So had a look at DeMar's passing stats. In his first 5 games this season he passed the ball about 30.0 times per game but only generated 6.2 potential assists (a potential assist is when you pass the ball to a teammate and attempt a shot). In the last 5 he's passed the ball only slightly more with 33.0 per game but his potential assists have spiked nearly 70% to 10.2 per game.

Wonder what's causing that, because he's not passing the ball any more than he was earlier really. Seems to be more a product of shooters and cutters getting in better positions to allow them to attempt open shots that they're actually willing take as opposed to getting the ball in more difficult situations where they're reluctant to shoot (so less potential assists since no FG is taken).

[iblastoff]

So had a look at DeMar's passing stats. In his first 5 games this season he passed the ball about 30.0 times per game but only generated 6.2 potential assists (a potential assist is when you pass the ball to a teammate and attempt a shot). In the last 5 he's passed the ball only slightly more with 33.0 per game but his potential assists have spiked nearly 70% to 10.2 per game.

Wonder what's causing that, because he's not passing the ball any more than he was earlier really. Seems to be more a product of shooters and cutters getting in better positions to allow them to attempt open shots that they're actually willing take as opposed to getting the ball in more difficult situations where they're reluctant to shoot (so less potential assists since no FG is taken).

you're talking about a sample size of 5 games each. theres zero point in wondering about it.

[Chr1s1anL]

Its simple, players werent making open shots in the first 5 games. Now players are hitting shots.

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[Mess]

So had a look at DeMar's passing stats. In his first 5 games this season he passed the ball about 30.0 times per game but only generated 6.2 potential assists (a potential assist is when you pass the ball to a teammate and attempt a shot). In the last 5 he's passed the ball only slightly more with 33.0 per game but his potential assists have spiked nearly 70% to 10.2 per game.

Wonder what's causing that, because he's not passing the ball any more than he was earlier really. Seems to be more a product of shooters and cutters getting in better positions to allow them to attempt open shots that they're actually willing take as opposed to getting the ball in more difficult situations where they're reluctant to shoot (so less potential assists since no FG is taken).

Maybe after 5 games of efficiently scoring 32+ a night to start the season, help defenders were gravitating a bit closer to him when he gets close to his spots. So the other players are more open thus more likely to shoot.

Or instead of getting to his spots with the first option to shoot, he's intentionally getting close to his spots but going an extra step to draw an extra defender to kick it out to an open man.

Or DC and PP have more confident now about letting it fly.

Or what you said, players know where they need to be to get a good shot off a kick out.

Probably not one thing.

[Mess]

Its simple, players werent making open shots in the first 5 games. Now players are hitting shots.

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"potential assists"

[Lupe]

Its simple, players werent making open shots in the first 5 games. Now players are hitting shots.

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It's not that simple. His potential assists have gone up a lot from 6.2 to 10.2. A potential assist is when you pass to someone and they ATTEMPT a shot that if they made it would result in an assist. Has nothing to do with actually making the shot.

However it's also not as simple as him passing more like some people have said because is passes per game have barely increased. Just seems like the shooters and cutters are finding better quality looks within the offense.

[octothorp]

So had a look at DeMar's passing stats. In his first 5 games this season he passed the ball about 30.0 times per game but only generated 6.2 potential assists (a potential assist is when you pass the ball to a teammate and attempt a shot). In the last 5 he's passed the ball only slightly more with 33.0 per game but his potential assists have spiked nearly 70% to 10.2 per game.

Wonder what's causing that, because he's not passing the ball any more than he was earlier really. Seems to be more a product of shooters and cutters getting in better positions to allow them to attempt open shots that they're actually willing take as opposed to getting the ball in more difficult situations where they're reluctant to shoot (so less potential assists since no FG is taken).

I'm not sure about your inferences there. I know you're looking at the total number of passes increasing by a slight percentage while the potential assists increase by a much larger percentage, but I'm not sure that's the right way of looking at the data. A lot of DeRozan's passes are early shot-clock action with the intent of setting up plays and getting the defense moving, which aren't going to change due to factors like teammates getting open more or him being more willing to pass. So given that, I don't think we can say that an increase in 3 passes per game is insignificant; it might be, or it might not be, depending on where they occur.

It could be that an increase of 3 passes per game strongly correlates to an increase of 4 potential assists per game, depending on when those passes occur. If that is, for example, an increase from, say, 5 to 8 passes a game where he starts his attack, draws the double-team or moves defenders out of position, and then finds someone for a shot attempt, that may be more about willingness to pass than about teammates getting into scoring position. Not saying your wrong, just saying I don't think we have detailed enough data to know.

[Lupe]

Maybe after 5 games of efficiently scoring 32+ a night to start the season, help defenders were gravitating a bit closer to him when he gets close to his spots. So the other players are more open thus more likely to shoot.

Or instead of getting to his spots with the first option to shoot, he's intentionally getting close to his spots but going an extra step to draw an extra defender to kick it out to an open man.

Or DC and PP have more confident now about letting it fly.

Or what you said, players know where they need to be to get a good shot off a kick out.

Probably not one thing.

Yeah could be any one of these things. I just wanted to make the point that it's not because DeMar's passing more, cause he really isn't, seems to primarily be a result of the factors you mentioned.

One thing about playmaking is that it's very hard to establish yourself as an effective playmaker unless you are also a legitimate threat to score. Having that threat gives you the gravity that I think S.R. mentioned earlier that shifts the defense and gives other guys easy scoring opportunities. I think DeMar's scoring tirade early on has increased that as teams are keying in on him more so now when he passes, other guys are even more open than they would be normally.

Kind of reminds me of when Kobe would have like a 10+ assist game while scoring in the teens and his detractors would say that he should do that all the time and stop being so selfish. Well it's not that simple. First of all you need teammates to really knock down shots at a high clip to pull that off and secondly the reason he was able to do that on occasion is because teams would key in so much on stopping his ability to hang 30 on them at will that they'd leave other guys so open that when he makes the same passes as normal those guys have tons of space to shoot or make things happen off the dribble or a cut.

[Lupe]

I'm not sure about your inferences there. I know you're looking at the total number of passes increasing by a slight percentage while the potential assists increase by a much larger percentage, but I'm not sure that's the right way of looking at the data. A lot of DeRozan's passes are early shot-clock action with the intent of setting up plays and getting the defense moving, which aren't going to change due to factors like teammates getting open more or him being more willing to pass. So given that, I don't think we can say that an increase in 3 passes per game is insignificant; it might be, or it might not be, depending on where they occur.

It could be that an increase of 3 passes per game strongly correlates to an increase of 4 potential assists per game, depending on when those passes occur. If that is, for example, an increase from, say, 5 to 8 passes a game where he starts his attack, draws the double-team or moves defenders out of position, and then finds someone for a shot attempt, that may be more about willingness to pass than about teammates getting into scoring position. Not saying your wrong, just saying I don't think we have detailed enough data to know.

The correlation you're suggesting is just statistically unlikely though, my assumption is more likely. Unless we have video of all his passes there's no way to really confirm that though. I get your point just don't really agree with it.

[octothorp]

The correlation you're suggesting is just statistically unlikely though, my assumption is more likely. Unless we have video of all his passes there's no way to really confirm that though. I get your point just don't really agree with it.

First five games: DeRozan passed on 23% of his drives. AST%: 5.
Last five games: DeRozan passed on 41% of his drives. AST%: 14.

That alone would account for a couple extra passes (and likely potential assists) per game, and strongly suggests that it may have more to do with a different emphasis on DeRozan's part of finding the open man once he's started his attack and the defense starts moving.

[ogi]

First five games: DeRozan passed on 23% of his drives. AST%: 5.
Last five games: DeRozan passed on 41% of his drives. AST%: 14.

That alone would account for a couple extra passes (and likely potential assists) per game, and strongly suggests that it may have more to do with a different emphasis on DeRozan's part of finding the open man once he's started his attack and the defense starts moving.

Which I think matches up well with the eye test. It seems that lately he's been going in with the actual plan of passing whereas earlier it seemed like he'd only pass when it's practically impossible to finish the drive.