Everything Derozan

[breakin_ankles]

Nah I don't buy those stats from Triano days. Maybe as third option he could average that FG% But not with best opposing defenders on him and how hard he scouted now.

But guys... What about.... When Durant gets here... 👍

[Chr1s1anL]

#ProveEm

[tDotted]

Nah I don't buy those stats from Triano days. Maybe as third option he could average that FG% But not with best opposing defenders on him and how hard teams scout him now

but he wasn't the third option though. (2010-2011 team)
#1 in minutes
#2 in points and PPG
#1 in FG% with at least 500+ FGA

bargnani even had a career year with triano. before this, he made FG% jumps of +7 from mitchell and +2 the following year. another funny thing is that bargnani had better shooting percentages through his time with triano than either lowry or demar have had under casey.

(basically what i'm saying is, the system heavily dictates production. numbers do not lie)

[MixxAOR]

but he wasn't the third option though. (2010-2011 team)
#1 in minutes
#2 in points and PPG
#1 in FG% with at least 500+ FGA

bargnani even had a career year with triano. before this, he made FG% jumps of +7 from mitchell and +2 the following year. another funny thing is that bargnani had better shooting percentages through his time with triano than either lowry or demar have had under casey.

(basically what i'm saying is, the system heavily dictates production. numbers do not lie)

% of FGA by Derozan in 2010-2011 year

.297 of 0-3 feet from basket
.170 of 3-10 feet
.176 of 10-16 feet
.312 of 16<3

30% of Derozan's shots were long two in that year. That trend never stopped. So that system promoted his style of play.

Sonny Weems had 20.3 % usage Derozan had 23.2. Nearly identical. Bargnani had 28.2% usage.

Now Derozan faces real defenders. If he takes on lesser role, he'll be efficient. But never as a first option.

[tDotted]

% of FGA by Derozan in 2010-2011 year

.297 of 0-3 feet from basket
.170 of 3-10 feet
.176 of 10-16 feet
.312 of 16<3

30% of Derozan's shots were long two in that year. That trend never stopped. So that system promoted his style of play.

I think you should be looking at his % of FGA in comparison to Casey's years. In 10-11, Demar's average FGA distance in feet was 11.2 compared to 14.2 last season. 30% of his attempts came within 0-3 feet before compared to just 15% last season. As for 16<3 (30% up to almost 36%).

The system promoted a healthy balance between his mid range game and slashing capabilities. Casey has seemed to favor running sets that promote outside shots.

(Triano Bargnani > Casey Bargnani. just throwing that out there)

Sonny Weems had 20.3 % usage Derozan had 23.2. Nearly identical. Bargnani had 28.2% usage.

Are you trying to say Sonny Weems was a top 3 option on that team?? You're not factoring the minutes or even games played into that USG%.

Now Derozan faces real defenders. If he takes on lesser role, he'll be efficient. But never as a first option.

What do you mean "real defenders"? You seem to miss that he took the 2nd most shots on a team with a first option that was not only a big man (meaning the team's best defensive wing would still check the raptor's best wing) but was also out a good portion of the season (meaning the team's best defensive wing would still check the raptor's best wing).

I liked the shot distribution between Lowry and DD pre-injury (including last season) where i wouldn't necessarily call either of them a first or second option. I still think they can thrive together in these roles, just not in this particular system.

[godkingleonidas]

Potentially we could face Miami, Cleveland, Milwaukee or Brooklyn in the first round. It's too early to start talking playoffs but, it would be nice to defeat .500+ teams on a regular basis.

[MACK11]

Potentially we could face Miami, Cleveland, Milwaukee or Brooklyn in the first round. It's too early to start talking playoffs but, it would be nice to defeat .500+ teams on a regular basis.

You Chinese?

[Reboc]

Just trade everyone except for Lowry. They're all shit.

[draps]

You only have to look as far as Rudy and his numbers from here, then Sacramento to realize demar could be way more efficient given an actual coach.
We don't have a cousins to help, but we have a deep enough team that he could probably shoot 47% no problem within an offensive system

[3inthekeon]

You only have to look as far as Rudy and his numbers from here, then Sacramento to realize demar could be way more efficient given an actual coach.
We don't have a cousins to help, but we have a deep enough team that he could probably shoot 47% no problem within an offensive system

Vasuqez and especially Patterson are better here. I guess they have a better coach too?

[OldSkoolCool]

Would love to know Raptors999 / oldscoolcool opinions

Lol thanks for asking

I have been on the trade DD side of the war since his third season as I don't think he plays a winning style of basketball (inefficient scorer at best; flawed overall) and I would have no issues trading him.

In a pick up game I like him with his ability to get his own shot, or work his man into a foul. But in a team game the dynamics are totally different and he lacks a few very important court awareness skills. I don't think we have ever seen him thread the needle for a pass or make a quick swing...the ball often sticks with him. His ability to penetrate is overrated at best and often needs a play action (via Amir the super screener) to get the seperation he needs to penetrate. When he does get in the paint he can finish or draw the foul but rarely makes a controlled pass to an open shot. The OP is right in saying he doesn't make his teammates better. He is only a 1-time all star...he needs to get there twice for him to be an all star player (this way eliminates tha Jamaal Magliore Stardom Effect). Raps fans have him pegged at a level he currently is not at. I suspect this is due to Colangelo making him the savior SG after Carter and the we have been super bad. His perception is greater than his production at this point.

Basically it comes down to the fact that he is a good enough player who you can't trade for lesser value easily, but he also isn't good enough to net a player who may ultimately be a higher level player for the Raps. He is stuck in the "No-mans-land" of talent.

To the OP. If the choice was Trade DD or JV. Trade DD every time. JV is younger, efficient, positionally impactful, and has the higher talent potential (if ever used, and used correctly)

-------------------------

Aside:

Personally, my "ideal" starting 2 guard should be able to break down the D and get in the paint easily AND be an elite passer from the paint. The penetration ability will start to rotate the D and the pass will lead to open shots, passes, offensive rebound opportunities for the team. DD is not this type of player and they are very rare in the NBA. Think taller and stronger Jeff Teague since we are all quitely jumping on the ATL bandwagon...

What this means is that the best solution I can come up with for a long term "DD replacement" is Tony Wroten (+ new offensive system). Unless there is a draftee who we could nab who has said skills above.

Though....most posters here think my ideas are batty on the best of days, so what do I know?

[white men can't jump]

Vasuqez and especially Patterson are better here. I guess they have a better coach too?

Vasquez is better here?? What exactly is he doing better?

Patterson played fine for Sacto when he got traded to them. He just started last season cold, and they gave up on him enough to trade him.

[draps]

Vasuqez and especially Patterson are better here. I guess they have a better coach too?

There is no truth to that
Patterson was injured while he was there but played well the season prior for them, and was better than he's been this year, and he was younger and expected to improve (Lol 12% usage rate now)
And Vasquez was much more efficient there and now has to play yolo ball

They just jack up threes now because our offence is nothing

And now they're in the east playing terrible teams, not the stacked west

[MixxAOR]

fuck it I don't want to build a team around homeless man's Rip Hamilton.

[ezz_bee]

I was an early adopter on the trade Bargs bandwagon.
Never been a big Demar fan, and have campaigned HARD in the past to get him shipped out. I agree with all the points people here are making about his game.

That said, the only way I make a trade is if what I'm getting back is more talent, and that will help BOTH this year and in the future. That's a very tall order. So tall in fact, that I just cannot see a scenario in which Derozan gets traded before the deadline. Derozan straight up for Klay Thompson or Jimmy Butler? That trade isn't going to be available.

Before the season began I think most people saw us winning a playoff series and playing a tight second round, and maybe squeaking into the conference finals. Expectations soared a bit based on how hot we started, and now we've come back to earth. It still looks like the Raps have as good a shot as anyone in the conference for the 2nd seed (currently 1.5 games back from Washington) and even with the recent dip in poor play, I still think odds are we'll get out of the first round.

I'm okay with firing Casey and/or trading Demar in the off-season, but doing it now, just seems like you're taking one step back without taking any steps forward.

EDIT: Basically if I'm Masai, I don't think this is a finals team, BUT the players and coaches deserve the chance to see how far they can take it. If they don't get out of the second round, Casey is gone, as long as I think I have an upgrade coach available.