Everything Derozan

[big boi]

DeMar is a bit of an odd piece, because he's a shooter who is quite good at creating his own shot and not very good at actually shooting. So he tries to make up for that by faking the defender into fouling his shot. When this doesn't work, the shot he actually launches can be ugly.

When the creating his shot then shooting badly was the only part of his game, he was not a very good player. But recently, he's added much improved defense, and also the ability to use the traffic he generates to try to create ball movement on occasion. That's really valuable if he can continue to get better at that.

This whole "DeMar is not a particularly good shooter" is not something that was discovered here at RR, and league front offices don't know anything about it. So its not like you are going to get something above his value by trading him. The only reason you do so is if you don't want to pay his extension/ resign him because you have a better plan in mind for the 18-20M he's going to get.

I don't think he's a finished product yet, either, which is pretty crazy for someone who's been in the league this long. He's so much better this year at using his team-mates and putting the rebounding and ball-handling efforts in. If those aspects of his game can continue to improve to the point where is able to do that stuff more often, and make that a more major part of the game, he will be worth that 18-20M that he's going to get. And his defense has been better this year even than last year, he knows the system and performs it well.

So yeah, he's an odd piece that can make pure stats cringe. But he's a piece that fits well with what the Raptors do right now, and somehow the Raptors have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA with him as either the first or second option. Let's not tear down something that's working just because it looks like it shouldn't work.

Great post

[Other Scott]

Thing is DeMar does add one element that is very valuable, the ability to drive to the basket in traffic and draw fouls.

It's a huge part of being a "scorer" and is hugely beneficial. Easy points (because he is an excellent free throw shooter), getting into the bonus quicker and getting opponents off the floor with foul trouble.

We can only guess what exactly Casey/Nurse are telling DeMar as far as how to score. I'm sure Nurse, out of the Rockets system knows full well mid range jumpers, especially contested, are not good shots.

Offensive RPM rates DeMar's offensive contribution as basically Zero, despite his horrific TS%. That may seem terrible alongside guys like Harden, Korver or Klay, but that's still 33rd of 98 listed SGs'. Combined with his not negative defence, and the minutes he soaks up, he's listed at #25 among SG's in overall value.

Also taking fewer midrange jumpers is far easier to do than being able to add enough range to become a decent 3 pt shooter.All it takes is a change in mindset. Whether he does it or not is the question.

The issue is that if the RPM is the true measure of where DeRozan is as a player, then he's not going to be paid like the the 25th most valuable shooting guard. I mean, number 25 is pretty terrible considering he's starting shooting guard of one of the East's top teams.

I think RPM probably undervalues him, but I'm not a scout or a numbers guy.

[3inthekeon]

The issue is that if the RPM is the true measure of where DeRozan is as a player, then he's not going to be paid like the the 25th most valuable shooting guard. I mean, number 25 is pretty terrible considering he's starting shooting guard of one of the East's top teams.

I think RPM probably undervalues him, but I'm not a scout or a numbers guy.

I personally like the concept of RPM because it tries to level the playing field as far as the strengths of teammates and opponents.It is not a be all and end all stat though, I agree,

Using NBA's Net Rating, DeMar is a +5.2 on a +4.6 team. That suggests he adds some value, though not a lot and seemingly not much (any?) more that what he's being paid.

[Other Scott]

I personally like the concept of RPM because it tries to level the playing field as far as the strengths of teammates and opponents.It is not a be all and end all stat though, I agree,

Using NBA's Net Rating, DeMar is a +5.2 on a +4.6 team. That suggests he adds some value, though not a lot and seemingly not much (any?) more that what he's being paid.

That's actually really good, considering
a) He's a starter, so he's getting that +5.2 against other starters.
b) That +4.6 rating is mostly due to the bench, where our highest Net Ratings are Tyler Hansbrough at +14.2, James Johnson at +10.5 and Lou Williams at +8.1. DeMar is actually higher than every single one of our original starting 5.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

That is quite epic.

I do wonder how much of a difference Casey is making in Demar's playing style. If Casey is telling Demar, go be a scorer, then Demar's mental approach to the game isn't going to produce a well rounded player. Is Demar just "following the leader" and forcing shots or is it a true flaw in Demar's game?

We wont know unless either a new Coach is brought in, or Demar is traded to another team. Personally, I'm more inclined to give Demar the benefit over Casey at this point, but moving Demar should bring a nice return package.

I must admit the numbers are far worse than I expected (probably worse than the usual Demar skeptics expected as well)....

Obviously he forces too many contested shots..... It's actually quite alarming.....making things A LOT tougher for himself....

Good thing for him is the season is not over.... Maybe he can improve those numbers..

Would like to review those numbers after the season to see if there is any improvement.

By the way, Casey IS telling Demar to be a scorer....I'm pretty sure I heard him say that myself and the announcers talked about it after his near triple double game I believe.

The numbers are ugly indeed, but it's his current role and we're 3 games up on #2 in the east..... 36-17.

I can't really complain.




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I do think DC deserves at least some of the blame. When DD doesn't force his own offensive game, plays within the flow of the offense and looks to get his team involved, he can be very effective. I thought the LAC game was one of his best ever, but then he followed that up with back-to-back hero-ball games.

As many 'haters' have said for the past couple years, if he plays the team game, he can actually score as many or more points, on far fewer shots. It's all about picking his spot, attacking (don't settle for forced double-teamed long 2's) and making it easy on himself to be more efficient with his scoring.

[Jrice9]

DeMar is a bit of an odd piece, because he's a shooter who is quite good at creating his own shot and not very good at actually shooting. So he tries to make up for that by faking the defender into fouling his shot. When this doesn't work, the shot he actually launches can be ugly.

When the creating his shot then shooting badly was the only part of his game, he was not a very good player. But recently, he's added much improved defense, and also the ability to use the traffic he generates to try to create ball movement on occasion. That's really valuable if he can continue to get better at that.

This whole "DeMar is not a particularly good shooter" is not something that was discovered here at RR, and league front offices don't know anything about it. So its not like you are going to get something above his value by trading him. The only reason you do so is if you don't want to pay his extension/ resign him because you have a better plan in mind for the 18-20M he's going to get.

I don't think he's a finished product yet, either, which is pretty crazy for someone who's been in the league this long. He's so much better this year at using his team-mates and putting the rebounding and ball-handling efforts in. If those aspects of his game can continue to improve to the point where is able to do that stuff more often, and make that a more major part of the game, he will be worth that 18-20M that he's going to get. And his defense has been better this year even than last year, he knows the system and performs it well.

So yeah, he's an odd piece that can make pure stats cringe. But he's a piece that fits well with what the Raptors do right now, and somehow the Raptors have the 2nd most efficient offense in the NBA with him as either the first or second option. Let's not tear down something that's working just because it looks like it shouldn't work.

Excellent post

[tDotted]

I do wonder how much of a difference Casey is making in Demar's playing style.

Compare his 10-11 season with Triano and 11-12 season with Casey. Big difference. (Bargnani same case)

Give Demar a proper system & he'll average 44/45% shooting for the year. Guaranteed.

[3inthekeon]

That's actually really good, considering
a) He's a starter, so he's getting that +5.2 against other starters.
b) That +4.6 rating is mostly due to the bench, where our highest Net Ratings are Tyler Hansbrough at +14.2, James Johnson at +10.5 and Lou Williams at +8.1. DeMar is actually higher than every single one of our original starting 5.

The other starters numbers were dragged down by his replacements, Ross and especially Fields. And DeMar is paid $9.5 million. Could Masai get DeMars production for that money in trade or on the open market? Maybe, maybe not. But one would hope Masai could get better for 18-20 million.

[mcHAPPY]

Haha. I'm not in to trading Demar. I really like the guy's work ethic and determination to improve. I only hope it clicks that he is talking bad shots. I mean it's black and white. I'm hopeful he'll settle down and be a mid 40's field goal guy who gets to the line a tonne, which does really help. Part of the problem is just how egocentric basketball ican be, guys determined to get their touches, their shots and points, no matter what.

Obviously I don't think Demar is a max player, or even close, but I think the glass is half full there and I wish more guys had his work ethic and overall professionalism.

The biggest issue I have, outside of his inconsistent play, is the looming free agency.

I think you need to trade him while you can return assets.

I do not want to see the Raptors paying him 20-25% of the salary cap.

[planetmars]

The biggest issue I have, outside of his inconsistent play, is the looming free agency.

I think you need to trade him while you can return assets.

I do not want to see the Raptors paying him 20-25% of the salary cap.

One option could to be resign DeMar at $18-$20M.. and then trade him the following year. May not be the most optimal way of getting value back.. but it would be better then getting nothing back. Basically pulling a Nene.

[big boi]

The biggest issue I have, outside of his inconsistent play, is the looming free agency.

I think you need to trade him while you can return assets.

I do not want to see the Raptors paying him 20-25% of the salary cap.

I hear you. Do you think we could still maximize return this summer, or early next year if we can't come to agreement? I'd like to keep Demar, but I don't want to over pay to do it.

[mcHAPPY]

No flaming, no trolling here. I'm not a fan of DeRozan's game at all - full disclosure if not already known. The latest statistical revelation confirming the eye test, that he takes a lot of bad shots, merely reaffirms my belief that the Raptors need more than 1 or 2 pieces to this current core to be a true contender. I believe Raptors need to finish this season and see what plays out in the playoffs. If they end up being a first round knock out, coaching and/or core player changes are likely needed, in my opinion.

"I would take the fifth, generally, on any of these specific trade rumors," Suns President of Basketball Operations Lon Babby said. "What I would say is I expect us to be active. And what I mean by that is we're not going to just sit here and wait for the phone to ring.

"We'll be initiating calls to every team, and taking the temperature of what's out there and what's available. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if we do something between now and next Thursday."

That sounds harsh, but only when comparing the Suns with current title contenders. Judge them as a team stockpiling assets in Year 2 of a new regime's overhaul, and you'll feel much better.

Nobody wants to lose a player such as Dragic, especially in exchange for a first-round pick. But if you saw James Harden dominate down the stretch Tuesday, you know exactly what this team needs most. And the reason the Suns don't have Harden in their organization is because they didn't have assets ready to move when the former Arizona State star hit the trade market.

"We tried like heck to get him," Babby said. "I was on the phone with (Oklahoma City GM) Sam Presti every single day. But going through that experience led me to believe we have to do what we're doing now, garnering assets and players that will be attractive to others."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sport...-nba/23322929/



Above shows Phoenix with their imbalanced roster looking at moving Dragic to get assets to get a player. DeRozan could possibly be that player, especially if Phoenix strikes out on free agent front. Suns have Green as a free agent this summer and losing Dragic would mean another scorer gone.

Raptors could get assets and more importantly free up significant cap space for 2015 or 2016. Phoenix has all their own first round picks and the Lakers 2015 protected top-5 this year, top 3 next 2 years, and unprotected in '18.


Who knows? But I think another playoff falter means changes need to be made.

[big boi]

Wow. How the mighty have fallen. The Suns sure talked a whole lotta shit when they beat us the tail end of that big western road trip.

[MACK11]

Wow. How the mighty have fallen. The Suns sure talked a whole lotta shit when they beat us the tail end of that big western road trip.

They can have fun being a perennial 9th seed in the west

[big boi]

They can have fun being a perennial 9th seed in the west

Ha, yeah. Hard not to get a little satisfaction out of that. They were sooo cocky after that game.