Everything Derozan

[stooley]

Derozan's been playing like crap. The bonus? We've got a lot more cap space come 2016, whether we keep him or not.

[Mindlessness]

iblastoff: Here's a list of players ranked by TS% who take over 9 FGAs per game, over 3 FTAs per game, and under 3 3-pt FGA per game. DeMar comes 21st out of 24th.
Here.

I sorted out centres, but most of the players are guards or wings.

In general, at this point I think almost everyone on the forum believes Casey's system is allowing the guards the freedom to do whatever, so I think if we're to blame the system on Casey, then the majority of shots DeMar takes is because of Casey, and the rest or minority DeMar's decision.

If this is the case then I personally believe in allowing DeMar to stay until we get a better coach (unless that takes too long) that implements a more balanced and sustainable offense involving a lot of ball movement. If DeMar does play within a system like that, what is there to say he wouldn't play like he did on Team USA? The only difference would be the teammates, but I'd tend to believe under a good coach he'd be questioned for any negative on-court decisions as he (likely) was on Team USA. I think we should give him the chance to prove himself a valuable player as a result.

EDIT: I should add that I'm basically extrapolating my hopes from last year and the Triano year, where DeMar was not averse to passing. Why would he be under another coach?

I should also add that if DeMar gets traded for good value, I don't blink an eye. Not a DeMar hater or lover.

[DanH]

Derozan's been playing like crap. The bonus? We've got a lot more cap space come 2016, whether we keep him or not.

You think he makes significantly less than 15M in 2016?

[stooley]

You think he makes significantly less than 15M in 2016?

If he plays like this until then, I think so.

What's the cap jumping from and to? I think his % stays similar to what it is now.

[Joey]

Actually you're wrong, Lillard is a better shooter than DeRozan and the stats back it up.

But it didn't start as Lillard is a better shooter. It started as you saying Demar can't shoot, and Lillard can.
And then we pointed out how Demar has managed to, in general, shoot a higher Field Goal percentage, at which point it changed to who was better shooter.
Field Goal Percentage is still one of the main barometers, and again, Demar has managed a higher one than Lillard. For a guy who "can't shoot", that ain't bad.

[Joey]

If it helps the debate, I don't really like Lillard either.



Watch him again, he takes a lot of heat check 3s early in shot clock.

Nothing you say right now helps any debate with that avatar. LOL

[Joey]

Ugh. People. You love DeRozan unconditionally. It's cool. Just state that as open and honestly as I am with my disapproval of his game. Anyone here arguing he is efficient or in same class as LeBron or. Lillard or takes good shots is just wrong - no opinion.

While I haven't once compared Demar to Lebron, you know how I feel about him. Haha

With regards to his efficiency, its unfortunately not that black and white. He takes SOME bad shots. And SOME good shots. On a nightly basis it fluctuates between which gets more. Yes, we'd like to consistently see MORE good shots, but that is where having a coach who understands how to run plays that involve more than 1 player helps.

If Demar hits 1 more Field Goal per game than he his now, at the same rate, he'd be shooting 45% from the field. That's the difference we're talking about here.

[mcHAPPY]

Yes, this season. But in case you didn't notice, I said "career". Last season and the season before, DeMar shot better. So again, take Lillard's 42.4% last season or 42.9% the season before (which coincidentally enough, is what DeRozan shot last season) and we're still having this conversation about how bad a shooter DeMar is. This is the point I'm trying to make

I don't think anyone has ever gotten my point, in this case.

After a brief shining 64 game stretch last season, he has reverted back to a bad basketball player.

He is not a consistently a good defender.
He is not a consistently good rebounder.
He is not a consistently good passer.
He is not a consistently good decision maker.
He is not a consistently efficient scorer.


Everything comes back to the scoring and efficiency because for those who put up favourable posts general discuss his scoring. Then it always comes back to the debate of efficiency versus volume. And don't forget the free throws! Good lord don't forget those! The one thing he is elite at is what the whole argument is hinged upon. Forget everything else. He can hold the ball and get to the line like nobody else!


If you want to compare field goal %, by all means, have at it. But lets look at one specific area of their careers to prove what point exactly? FFS. Comparing DeRozan to LIllard is an absolute insult. Lillard is a productive basketball player - there are very few holes if any in his game. Both players are 24 and 25 respectively. Forget their careers. Look at the here and now as they enter their primes.


..................Damian Lillard.......DeMar DeRozan
Position........PG (1.0)................SG (2.0)
Minutes........2101.0..................1305.0
WP48........... .226 ................... .027
POP48.......... 3.9..................... -2.2
Wins produced.. 9.9 ................. .7
Points............. 28.6 ................. 26.2
Rebounds........ 6.1 .................. 6.3
Assists............ 8.2 .................. 4.4
Turnovers........ 3.5 ................. 3.1
Blocks ............ .4 .................. .2
Steals ............. 1.9 ................ 2.0
Fouls .............. 2.7 ................ 2.9


..........................................Damian Lillard .............DeMar DeRozan
Field goal percentage .............43.6% .......................... 39.0%
Two point percentage .............50.5% .......................... 40.7%
Three point fg percentage ....... 34.4%.......................... 20.8%
Free throw percentage ............. 86.1% ........................ 81.0%
E field goal percentage ............. 51.0% ........................ 39.9%
True shooting .......................... 56.6% ........................ 48.4%
Field goal attempts................... 22.3 ........................... 22.7
Three point fg attempts ............. 9.5 ............................ 1.9
Free throw attempts................... 6.9 ............................ 10.0

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...%93&player_ids[]=1309&player_ids[]=318&season=2014


The same thing can be done with the comparison to LBJ. Lets take one specific stat (FTA) and use that as a comparison forgetting everything else. REally?

And at what point can we stop calling him young? He is going to be 26 this summer with 6 complete seasons under his belt. If you still think he is improving - I can live with that. But for an NBA player he is no longer young - he is average age while his experience is well above average.

[Joey]

But that's a little unfair to pick Demars WORST season by far (which again comes off his loaded summer and really bad hamstring injury) and say its his "norm" and what he will be throughout his "prime".

[Mindlessness]

But that's a little unfair to pick Demars WORST season by far (which again comes off his loaded summer and really bad hamstring injury) and say its his "norm" and what he will be throughout his "prime".

Shooting wise especially we should expect to return to his career averages if he does what he promised to do.

[white men can't jump]

But that's a little unfair to pick Demars WORST season by far (which again comes off his loaded summer and really bad hamstring injury) and say its his "norm" and what he will be throughout his "prime".

Is it his worst season by far? Shooting % it is, but it's actually his 2nd best season by PER. And he hasn't seen any real uptick in anything to offset the drop in shooting.

[mcHAPPY]

But it didn't start as Lillard is a better shooter. It started as you saying Demar can't shoot, and Lillard can.
And then we pointed out how Demar has managed to, in general, shoot a higher Field Goal percentage, at which point it changed to who was better shooter.
Field Goal Percentage is still one of the main barometers, and again, Demar has managed a higher one than Lillard. For a guy who "can't shoot", that ain't bad.

Field goal percentage is a poor barameter when you have Lillard attempting 6.6 threes per game. To put that in perspective he has taken approximately the same number of 3s in EACH season that DeRozan has taken in 6 years.

Apples to oranges.

[Joey]

Field goal percentage is a poor barameter when you have Lillard attempting 6.6 threes per game. To put that in perspective he has taken approximately the same number of 3s in EACH season that DeRozan has taken in 6 years.

Apples to oranges.

I disagree. Field Goal percentage is Field Goal Percentage. That's why its used so widely in the NBA. Lillard should shoot less 3's if he's only hitting 34% of them. Demar knows this about his game, and compensates and basically only shoots them from the corner. Where he's decent.

[stooley]

I don't think anyone has ever gotten my point, in this case.

After a brief shining 64 game stretch last season, he has reverted back to a bad basketball player.

He is not a consistently a good defender.
He is not a consistently good rebounder.
He is not a consistently good passer.
He is not a consistently good decision maker.
He is not a consistently efficient scorer.


Everything comes back to the scoring and efficiency because for those who put up favourable posts general discuss his scoring. Then it always comes back to the debate of efficiency versus volume. And don't forget the free throws! Good lord don't forget those! The one thing he is elite at is what the whole argument is hinged upon. Forget everything else. He can hold the ball and get to the line like nobody else!


If you want to compare field goal %, by all means, have at it. But lets look at one specific area of their careers to prove what point exactly? FFS. Comparing DeRozan to LIllard is an absolute insult. Lillard is a productive basketball player - there are very few holes if any in his game. Both players are 24 and 25 respectively. Forget their careers. Look at the here and now as they enter their primes.


..................Damian Lillard.......DeMar DeRozan
Position........PG (1.0)................SG (2.0)
Minutes........2101.0..................1305.0
WP48........... .226 ................... .027
POP48.......... 3.9..................... -2.2
Wins produced.. 9.9 ................. .7
Points............. 28.6 ................. 26.2
Rebounds........ 6.1 .................. 6.3
Assists............ 8.2 .................. 4.4
Turnovers........ 3.5 ................. 3.1
Blocks ............ .4 .................. .2
Steals ............. 1.9 ................ 2.0
Fouls .............. 2.7 ................ 2.9


..........................................Damian Lillard .............DeMar DeRozan
Field goal percentage .............43.6% .......................... 39.0%
Two point percentage .............50.5% .......................... 40.7%
Three point fg percentage ....... 34.4%.......................... 20.8%
Free throw percentage ............. 86.1% ........................ 81.0%
E field goal percentage ............. 51.0% ........................ 39.9%
True shooting .......................... 56.6% ........................ 48.4%
Field goal attempts................... 22.3 ........................... 22.7
Three point fg attempts ............. 9.5 ............................ 1.9
Free throw attempts................... 6.9 ............................ 10.0

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players...%93&player_ids[]=1309&player_ids[]=318&season=2014


The same thing can be done with the comparison to LBJ. Lets take one specific stat (FTA) and use that as a comparison forgetting everything else. REally?

And at what point can we stop calling him young? He is going to be 26 this summer with 6 complete seasons under his belt. If you still think he is improving - I can live with that. But for an NBA player he is no longer young - he is average age while his experience is well above average.

Wait, so what's your point?

[mcHAPPY]

But that's a little unfair to pick Demars WORST season by far (which again comes off his loaded summer and really bad hamstring injury) and say its his "norm" and what he will be throughout his "prime".

What other TEAM USA members are struggling outside of Derrick Rose who is a special case all to himself?

That is an excuse in my opinion.

Injuries happen. There has been no mention this is a nagging injury.


Could it possibly be his worst season by his own doing due to a combination of his own decisions and Casey's game plan? I think that is where one looks at his WORST season before anything else. Injuries and TEAM USA are passing the buck when the accountability should be on the player and the coach.