Everything Derozan

[Snooch]

It doesn't have to be (and is extremely unlikely that it will be) Kevin Durant. It also doesn't have to necessarily happen in 2016 free agency.

Superstars can be acquired through so many different avenues: Draft, trades, free agency, etc. Think people need to chill. DeRozan, even extended on a big deal is a high value asset. There are 4 better shooting guards in the league, one of whom is completely untouchable (Harden) and one who is on the back-end of his career (Dwyane Wade). Even if you have to trade him later on to make room for a superstar (which I don't see happening or think is likely) it's not that hard to move a top 5 shooting guard, signed through his prime, with all-star and Team USA appearance(s) and almost zero injury history in a trade.

You retain the fucking asset unless you get an upgrade, it's really that fucking simple.

No, it really isnt that simple.

THis asset is an impending free agent that is going to be requiring a MASSIVE upgrade in pay. If said talent was available at his current rate for the next 3 years then fine your logic is more sound.

Keeping said asset for 25 ish million, then how do you aquire the star, you keep saying via trade, but provide nothing in terms of possibilities of that happening. And if you could find a suitor for a "superstar" then you would absolutely need to gut most of the good peices of the roster leaving you with a superstar and a subpar supporting cast.

And by your own words he is the 5th best shooting guard(arguable with Giannis and Oladipo on the rise) in what is without doubt by far the weakest position in the league (league has been shifting to sg being filled with specialty guys that fill a specifc need ie: 3D, look at all the top teams over last 10 years....) because he is better than others at his own position? that is Isaih Thomas type managing.


BUT.......



This all is in jest, because the real question being posed that you have been skirting for some time is how do you get a hypotheical to come here with said gutted roster in a signing, or win with a gutted team over sacrificing Demar in an effort to land him.

You said yourself, multiple times, that without offering a superstar to play with Demar they would all turn that down, but continue to dodge answering how a team with a gutted bench, and 2/3 starters gone if more attractive than playing with ALL of lowry/jv/carrol and most of the bench?

[Snooch]

By professionals I mean coaches selecting him for ASG/TeamUSA and NBA players taking a poll on whose the raptors best player and DD wining by a comfortable margin.

1- a season in which alot of the upper echelon guards were injured - fact

2 - with 34 other players that a) agreed to be available b) were actually born american. So Demar was good enough of available players, born in the USA, willing to participate he wass in the top 34 of them........

3 - the poll is now becoming the new ASG/Team USA thing I see....we do not know who was polled, if it was anyone of importance the author of the article would have stated who they were, it could have just as easily been someone who has played the last 2 years in China, so it needs to be taken with a grain of salt as opposed to a barometer of the greatness of Demar. And to add to the poll, Demar is BY FAR The most marketed Raptor player, so that is going to affect his selection by some of these "players". ANd lastly, for all we know they could have been asked only three names to choose between. The results of the poll and the process of the selection is far too vague for it to carry any value as more than a "fluff piece"

[Joey]

Geezus, I think you guys actually enjoy this ... LOL

[Snooch]

Geezus, I think you guys actually enjoy this ... LOL

at least its basketball talk.

over the last 3 years if you want to discuss raptor basketball it has to be about Demar, it the only place to find any action.

not only are we forced to watch him over and over in his non-exciting brand of long two basketball, we are also subjecting to listening to ridiculous posts from his fans.

[JawsGT]

Reading this thread must be alot like listening to opposing religious fanatics argue with each other. Or maybe a hardcore christian vs. an atheist. you guys are taking 'waste of time' to a whole 'nother level. You don't agree with each other, and neither side has the ability to convert the other, so I'd say let it go and find something productive to do with your time.

[Joey]

at least its basketball talk.

over the last 3 years if you want to discuss raptor basketball it has to be about Demar, it the only place to find any action.

not only are we forced to watch him over and over in his non-exciting brand of long two basketball, we are also subjecting to listening to ridiculous posts from his fans.

Some might say the posts from his critics become just as ridiculous.

[Snooch]

Some might say the posts from his critics become just as ridiculous.

find one claim I posted that is ridiculous, I will show you why it isnt.

I may get caught up in the debate, but argue against.

1) his inefficiency as a shooter
2) his subpar defense
3) his upcoming raise being in the realm of ridiculous
4) he passing mostly when he gets into trouble in his offense
5) his dribbling and iso work being pretty weak
6) him undeserving of 28% usage
7) in no way is he and 1 of lowry/jv/dc a more desireable reason for a superstar to join the team than all of lowry/jc/dc/ bench and not him
8) an allstar game selection 2 seasons ago, team usa selection, the supposed recruitment of DC(even though there is STILL NO PROOF) and the summer league poll has no place in determining the value of a player.

You may disagree with all or some of these on a personal level as a fan of him, but you cannot just push them to the side as some form of "hate" when they all are very valid points.

[JWash]

Snooch in response to your question (which I've already answered btw). I think IF Durant says he wants to come here... DD and JV will work with Masai to structure their contracts in such a way that allows Lowry/DD/DC/KD/JV to fit under the cap (DanH is going to come in here and explain how this is ludicrous, so i'll just say right now that it obviously requires both of them to take significantly less than the max... close to combined 1st year salary of <35M in the first year). That will require us to trade some bench players (i.e. CoJo and 2Pat) while letting Ross/JJ walk... however sacrificing depth to field what would arguably be the best starting 5 in the league (with an all-star caliber player at 3 positions, superstar at 1 and elite role player at the other).

If DD or JV weren't willing to accept deals that allows this to happen, then yeah you obviously move whichever one isn't willing to do that.

[Joey]

find one claim I posted that is ridiculous, I will show you why it isnt.

I may get caught up in the debate, but argue against.

1) his inefficiency as a shooter
2) his subpar defense
3) his upcoming raise being in the realm of ridiculous
4) he passing mostly when he gets into trouble in his offense
5) his dribbling and iso work being pretty weak
6) him undeserving of 28% usage
7) in no way is he and 1 of lowry/jv/dc a more desireable reason for a superstar to join the team than all of lowry/jc/dc/ bench and not him
8) an allstar game selection 2 seasons ago, team usa selection, the supposed recruitment of DC(even though there is STILL NO PROOF) and the summer league poll has no place in determining the value of a player.

You may disagree with all or some of these on a personal level as a fan of him, but you cannot just push them to the side as some form of "hate" when they all are very valid points.

A lot of those can easily be debated with reasonable arguments though, as have been ad nauseam, so for you to call them "ridiculous" just makes it that much more difficult for anyone to want to have any sort of debate with you on the issue.

1) Dwane Casey
2) "Subpar" is debatable. He's been VERY good at times, and not so good at times. Doesn't help that his teammates are mostly subpar and the system was a disaster last year.
3) NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HE WILL GET. Both camps have already come out and refuted the rumours.
4) Not true. When he has targets to pass to, he does. If they flee to the other side of the court, he doesn't.
5) Not sure why you combine Dribbling skills with ability to score in isolation here, but once again, I'd say his ISO game is absolutely above average, but regardless, that's on Casey and the System being run. And his dribbling has improved massively as well.
6) ...Dwane Casey
7) Massively Debateable. You don't know what other Superstars desire .. considering KD was at OVO fest with Demar, it's not a reach to think maybe KD just likes the guy and wants to play with him?
8) That's your opinion. Some people may choose to use that criteria when Valuing. I don't think its crazy to think that Coaches and GM will consider those things as well ...

And you're trying to tell me all of the above is "Ridiculous"? If so, then we really have nothing to talk about on the matter.

Just as you've stated, you can't push the above aside and dismiss it as "Dick Sucking" or "Church of Derozan" or whatever childish shit people have come up with either.

[JWash]

I do find it hilarious that this argument has somehow shifted and wrapped itself around this idea of getting KD.

Can we be at least agree on this? We have almost no chance of signing Durant next season.

Hmm, I could win the lottery next year, so let me just sell my nice car so I can make sure I have enough money to buy as many lottery tickets as possible!

[JWash]

Axel why'd you delete your post? Was about to respond to it -___-

DD and JV taking paycuts seems unlikely in a vacuum. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that they would, but I mean even if they get a combined 33M or so in the first year, DD is basically doubling his earnings per year while JV is quadrupling his, and both guys are getting a legitimate chance to win multiple titles.

I guess it really depends on what their main motivators are and how much that extra 6-7M per year would mean vs. legitimately contending for titles.

[Snooch]

Snooch in response to your question (which I've already answered btw). I think IF Durant says he wants to come here... DD and JV will work with Masai to structure their contracts in such a way that allows Lowry/DD/DC/KD/JV to fit under the cap (DanH is going to come in here and explain how this is ludicrous, so i'll just say right now that it obviously requires both of them to take significantly less than the max... close to combined 1st year salary of <35M in the first year). That will require us to trade some bench players (i.e. CoJo and 2Pat) while letting Ross/JJ walk... however sacrificing depth to field what would arguably be the best starting 5 in the league (with an all-star caliber player at 3 positions, superstar at 1 and elite role player at the other).

If DD or JV weren't willing to accept deals that allows this to happen, then yeah you obviously move whichever one isn't willing to do that.

they would have to take a 50%+ pay cut each, you actually think they will do that? and the bench would still need gutted.
Lowry 12 million
Demar 13 million
DC 15 million
JV 10 million
KD 28 million

that is 77 million of your 90 cap there. so that leaves 13 million to fill the bench. So find a bench on a championship team whose number 6-15 men cost 15 million or less. And that is if JV agrees to a 10 million and DD a 12 million dollar contract.

Or you can let some guys go,

Lowry 12 million
DD 22 million(slight pay cut)
KD 28 million
Ppat 7 million
JV 14 million (slight pay cut)

that is 83 million in the starting lineup but you bench isnt completely gutted, lets say you keep wright and Biyombo and the NYK pick and Powell. You have about 3 million capspace after adding the pick to sign a player in free agency and a lineup of

Lowry/Wright
DD/Powell
KD/
Ppat/pick
JV/Biyombo

Not a championship team, no sixth man.

and you think that is more reasonable moving forward than

Lowry/Cujo/Wright
KD/Powell
Carroll/Ross/Bruno
Ppat/Pick
JV/Bebe/Biyombo

with a starting lineup costing about 77 million, so the same cost as scenario 1, but without unrealistically getting 2 of your starters to take a 50% paycut. And that isnt going back into the debate that DC fits beside KD better than DD does

[Snooch]

I do find it hilarious that this argument has somehow shifted and wrapped itself around this idea of getting KD.

Can we be at least agree on this? We have almost no chance of signing Durant next season.

Hmm, I could win the lottery next year, so let me just sell my nice car so I can make sure I have enough money to buy as many lottery tickets as possible!

it is purely speculative, but I think that the odds are alot better than the 0.01% you proclaim.

[Joey]

Why pay Lowry when we have CoJo? #FreeCoJo

[Snooch]

Axel why'd you delete your post? Was about to respond to it -___-

DD and JV taking paycuts seems unlikely in a vacuum. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that they would, but I mean even if they get a combined 33M or so in the first year, DD is basically doubling his earnings per year while JV is quadrupling his, and both guys are getting a legitimate chance to win multiple titles.

I guess it really depends on what their main motivators are and how much that extra 6-7M per year would mean vs. legitimately contending for titles.

lowry 12 million
jv/dd 33 million
superstar at 28 million
carroll at 15 million

that is 88 million of a 90 million dollar cap. It is ridiculously unlikely, beyond ridiculously unlikely that would happen.