Everything Derozan

[SkywalkerAC]

Durant also doesn't "hero ball" even though he should. He defers too much to Westbrook. When WB was out KD played alot better and vice versa. They don't compliment each other at all either by style or personality. Derozan and KD would result in the same.

DeMar is much less an alpha personality relative to Westbrook.

[raptors999]

How is losing Carroll, Ross and some picks gutting the team?

Is it only our fans that don't realize this. The Raptors would be LOADED if what I proposed happened. You're talking 3 all-star level players (DD, Lowry, JV) and a legitimate superstar with 3 of them in their prime and one who hasn't even hit it yet.

Losing Caroll would hurt. KD could replace his D but you don't pay KD to play DC style defense. Raptors finally have a 3 and don't want to go back

[Henry_Chinaski]

DeMar is much less an alpha personality relative to Westbrook.

Demar is much less of a player Westbrook is.

[SkywalkerAC]

Losing Caroll would hurt. KD could replace his D but you don't pay KD to play DC style defense. Raptors finally have a 3 and don't want to go back

But we should want to move that 3 to the 2?

[SkywalkerAC]

Demar is much less of a player Westbrook is.

Ah, but he's a much better player than Waiters and Morrow.

[tDotted]

Ah, but he's a much better player than Waiters and Morrow.

Someone's going to find a way to disagree with this... somehow lol

[LJ2]

A lot going on in this thread....my opinion is that if you somehow can land KD then nobody is safe in a trade that would bring him here.

Great players like KD tend to elevate the games of the players around him, and DD would be no exception. However, KD and Lowry would make a better pairing and would supply more than enough offence where the loss off DD wouldn't be felt. Lowry for as good as he is, is an excellent second option and not as good of a primary option

[JWash]

I think DD would be one of the main recruiters in a Durant chase. The two have a friendship and he has the most cache around the league of any player on our roster. It's not really inconceivable that one of the reasons KD would want to come here might be to play with DeRozan.

The idea of keeping DD while signing KD actually does provide somewhat of an explanation for why Ross was extended now as opposed to letting him test RFA. In the latter case he wouldn't be able to be used as a piece in a sign and trade, while in this case he would with a ~10M cap hit.

Don't think it's crazy to think Masai might include "best backcourt in the east" along with a legitimate 2-way bigman as part of his pitch.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Losing Caroll would hurt. KD could replace his D but you don't pay KD to play DC style defense. Raptors finally have a 3 and don't want to go back

But we should want to move that 3 to the 2?

The nice thing with a Durant (PF/SF) & Carroll (SF/SG) pairing is that you could partner them with a PF/SF/SG, depending whether you want to play big or small. Heck, for short bursts, you could probably go super small with Durant @ C and Carroll @ PF.

Carroll provides a lot more lineup flexibility than DeRozan, in addition to minor things like 3pt shooting, off-ball play and defense... and [extremely likely] for less money.

[Snooch]

Those aren't true though ...

Bosh completely changed his game when he went to Miami. Maybe now he's playing more like he used to, but when it was the Big 3, Bosh struggled to adjust, but ultimately found his stride.

Again, maybe nowadays Wade has gone back to his old ways, but when he was #2, he most certainly did not play the same as the year before Lebron arrived.

Love does not play the same AT ALL as when he was in Minnesota. Its really night and day actually.

But yes, you're right, Demar would need to make adjustments. Just like any player playing with new, Elite teammates.

non of that is true, outside of bosh taking about 35 games to not take 15 seconds to do something with the ball.


but sure.

[Axel]

All I was saying is that DeMar does play off the ball... and continues to do so in spurts. To say he doesn't is like saying Westbrook doesn't take threes because he doesn't have great mechanics.


What evidence is there of any of this? I think people forget, DeMar has made a couple of big transitions already in his career and hasn't exactly 'fallen on his to face'.

No he doesn't and the Westbrook thing doesn't even make sense or compare. How often does Demar make an instinctive cut off ball? Almost never. Largely by Casey's design but I highly doubt that Demar is standing on the perimeter thinking "this would be a good time to cut if I were in a different system".

Evidence that a player cannot immediately dramatically change the way they play from a ball dominant player to a successful role player? Miami - Wade and LeBron (and Bosh) all struggled to adjust to playing more off ball. Boston - it was an adjustment for KG, Allen and Pierce to learn to play off of each other. In both of these examples, the players were better than Demar and often playing a "my turn, your turn" game which works when dealing with relatively equal star players. DD shouldn't be used in a "my turn" fashion because he would just be bringing a less efficient version of the star player.

Where is the evidence that DD can make this transition better than those HoF guys?

[Just Is]

Found a pretty interesting tidbit via an article on the front page. It wasn't something that I noticed before but it's especially evident with the talk of the Raptors having one of the best back courts in the league. Specifically, I'll quote the portion most directly relating to Demar:

DeMar DeRozan was also among the nine players nominated for the award. DeRozan averaged 21.2 points for the month, making up for inefficient shooting with 8.7 free-throw attempts per game and improved playmaking off the dribble and out of post-ups. An adequate defender now fortunate to draw easier assignments thanks to DeMarre Carroll, DeRozan also chipped in 4.2 rebounds, 4.2 assists, and 1.1 steals. Despite all of that, the Raptors were better with DeRozan off the floor than on it, which seems odd until you see how poorly DeRozan has performed without Lowry by his side.

Lowry+DeRozan: O Rtg 105.9; D Rtg 100.4; Net 5.5

DeRozan, no Lowry: O Rtg: 98.4; D Rtg: 101.8; Net: -3.4

Lowry, no DeRozan: 108.2; D Rtg: 88.9; Net 19.4

[Axel]

Bosh completely changed his game when he went to Miami. Maybe now he's playing more like he used to, but when it was the Big 3, Bosh struggled to adjust, but ultimately found his stride.

Again, maybe nowadays Wade has gone back to his old ways, but when he was #2, he most certainly did not play the same as the year before Lebron arrived.

Love does not play the same AT ALL as when he was in Minnesota. Its really night and day actually.

But yes, you're right, Demar would need to make adjustments. Just like any player playing with new, Elite teammates.

Excellent examples.

Bosh really struggled and used his defence and passing to help assuage the transition.

Love struggled a lot last year and this year started to return to his previous form due to LeBron and the Cavs making a deliberate effort to go through Love (also helps that Irving is out).

No addition to those guys all being more talented than Demar, another factor working against Demar is that we are not likely getting a star as capable or willing to pass as much as LeBron. I doubt there is a better star to ease the transition than LeBron because of his versatility and skill set.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Found a pretty interesting tidbit via an article on the front page. It wasn't something that I noticed before but it's especially evident with the talk of the Raptors having one of the best back courts in the league. Specifically, I'll quote the portion most directly relating to Demar:



Lowry+DeRozan: O Rtg 105.9; D Rtg 100.4; Net 5.5

DeRozan, no Lowry: O Rtg: 98.4; D Rtg: 101.8; Net: -3.4

Lowry, no DeRozan: 108.2; D Rtg: 88.9; Net 19.4

It certainly passes the sniff-test.

Much earlier in the season I said that the offense gets bogged down when DeRozan plays with the bench (Joseph, Ross, Patterson and Biyombo), because he goes into hero-mode and takes the ball out of Joseph's hands (an actual facilitator) and turns Patterson & Ross into bumps on a log out on the perimeter.

[Joey]

Individually he has thrived.

The team, of course, not so much once the games matter.

That is kind of the whole point, whether it is DD or KL, that their individual talent level is not high enough to carry the team in such a manner. Very few players have that ability night in and night out, in the playoffs.

I don't agree with a game plan that relies on your best player(s) having above average game(s) to win.

Nice post that I think we can all agree with.