Everything Derozan

[Chr1s1anL]

He's an average defensive player. He's elite at drawing fouls, but that excepted, he's a mostly average offensive player(above average driving, below average jump shooting) with an enormous usage rate. The people here who've been in favor of trading him or not giving him a big contract have been saying this. He's just not exceptional at anything except drawing fouls.

Not many players are exceptional at more than on thing

[Snooch]

Not many players are exceptional at more than on thing

lol. you dont seriously believe that do you?

[Chr1s1anL]

lol. you dont seriously believe that do you?

Exceptional? Yes, I do.

[Snooch]

Exceptional? Yes, I do.

wow

[JWash]

He's an average defensive player. He's elite at drawing fouls, but that excepted, he's a mostly average offensive player(above average driving, below average jump shooting) with an enormous usage rate. The people here who've been in favor of trading him or not giving him a big contract have been saying this. He's just not exceptional at anything except drawing fouls.

Idk if I'd call his driving just above average. Most drives, most points off drives and highest shooting percentage on drives of anyone in the top 20...

[Barolt]

Idk if I'd call his driving just above average. Most drives, most points off drives and highest shooting percentage on drives of anyone in the top 20...

Except, he doesn't do that within a team concept and has shown no ability to do so. As demonstrated earlier in the thread, when he drives more, we lose more. So is it really an exceptional skill if it hurts the team?

[Wild-ling#1]

He's an average defensive player. He's elite at drawing fouls, but that excepted, he's a mostly average offensive player(above average driving, below average jump shooting) with an enormous usage rate. The people here who've been in favor of trading him or not giving him a big contract have been saying this. He's just not exceptional at anything except drawing fouls.

No one need simply accept this characterization. It's not gospel.

I posted some numbers at the head of "All things Considered (DeMar/All Star)" thread that are impressive. I don't think they tell the story of a "mostly average offensive player". I think that's a bit of sophistry - breaking the numbers down, and then emphasizing some at the expense of others.

(... As if being the highest scoring point guard in the conference, with more than respectable WS, PER and assist numbers should be only an after thought ... to whatever indicators you might prefer to discuss.)

And DeMar can and will take the pressure ... and can and will take the punishment. So much is said about how we can't win with him. And yet we do. As for the playoff losses so far - I watched them too. And can't wait for the next ...

We are all entitled to value the game, and its players (and its aesthetics, too) differently. Talent matters, of course. But character matters to me as well - because I see it, primarily, as a human drama. I take nothing away from LeBron or Mr. Curry or Mr. Butler . But I admire DeMar (as well). And I'd like to take issue with your insistence that he's just an average (or "mostly average") guy.

Is that ok with you, I wonder?

[OldSkoolCool]

Some interesting stats about how more DD = more losses

Not surprised really, though glad people went through the effort to prove it

[Barolt]

Scoring doesn't happen in a vaccuum Wild-ling.

He scores a lot, but it's about how he does it, and more importantly, how efficiently he does it. DeRozan doesn't do it efficiently at all, which is the problem.

[Axel]

Is that ok with you, I wonder?

Is this type of question really expected to lead to anything productive?

[Wild-ling#1]

Scoring doesn't happen in a vaccuum Wild-ling.

He scores a lot, but it's about how he does it, and more importantly, how efficiently he does it. DeRozan doesn't do it efficiently at all, which is the problem.

You've said this as if there's a snowball's chance in hell that I wasn't aware.

... And then gone on to reduce all I said (and all that could ever be said, I suppose ... by the US National team coaches, or anyone else who might differ) to a single, self-congratulatory point - which avoids all other information and perspectives.

No thanks.

[JWash]

Ah so a positive about DD driving more this season and trying to exploit the most efficient area of the floor more is somehow flipped into how he hurts the team.

Think I need to take a break from this thread. Tried to be as neutral as possible, pointing out positives and negatives in DD's game, but it's like you can't say anything good about the guy without it being totally reversed into how he hurts the team.

[Wild-ling#1]

Is this type of question really expected to lead to anything productive?

It's part rhetorical flourish but part an offer to further communication. It is just that.

(It follows on a response to someone who has stated a position (rhetorically, grammatically) as "the truth". Asking that person if they'll concede room for other opinions can hardly be seen as a sin, I don't think. Quite a gentle riposte, actually, seems to me ...)

[Axel]

Ah so a positive about DD driving more this season and trying to exploit the most efficient area of the floor more is somehow flipped into how he hurts the team.

Think I need to take a break from this thread. Tried to be as neutral as possible, pointing out positives and negatives in DD's game, but it's like you can't say anything good about the guy without it being totally reversed into how he hurts the team.

Well I think we both agree that Demar being too large a focal point of the offence has negative effects, but I don't think anyone expected that in those losses DD would be making smarter choices (more drives) and more efficient (62%). I think it will take time for people to process that. Maybe it's related to "freezing" out other players, maybe it's simply a less Lowry = losing thing, but the fact is there and quite incredible to see. Facts are neutral.

[OldSkoolCool]

Ah so a positive about DD driving more this season and trying to exploit the most efficient area of the floor more is somehow flipped into how he hurts the team.

Think I need to take a break from this thread. Tried to be as neutral as possible, pointing out positives and negatives in DD's game, but it's like you can't say anything good about the guy without it being totally reversed into how he hurts the team.

They aren't arguing that his driving is hurting the team

They are arguing that when he tries to do too much he hurts the team. The stats appear to show that when DD tries to dominate the game, the team suffers.

Sound like someone you want to pay?