Everything Derozan

[Miekenstien]

But they are willing to pay him as if the offence is (continued to be) built around him.

pay him fair market value.

[JWash]

How many Pistons games have you watched this year?

You pulled out useless stats without showing any understanding of the concept, so yes, I assume not many. Not an intelligence thing at all.

Uh huh because oRTG is a useless stat.

[Axel]

pay him fair market value.

And if the market is unnaturally inflated - pay that anyway?

[Axel]

Uh huh because oRTG is a useless stat.

So have you watched any Pistons games or not?

[Miekenstien]

Best bet is to trade DD for a capable stretch 4 and a SG prospect who can shoot. The bench scorers role can be filled via other means. But that would mean giving up the Durant dream so we play risky.

i would agree with this but would want more than a capable 4 and prospect

[JWash]

And short of long shot free agent scenarios, you got nothing.

You want to make this a simple Demar vs this guy and/or that guy, but it doesn't work that way. Fit, scheme etc are important when discussing less than elite talent.

I'm thinking about fit as well actually. DeMar fits this squad just fine. Our issues right now in terms of maximizing our players don't have a lot to do with fit, just crappy rotations and crappy coaching from Casey. There's a whole article up about why the fuck isn't 2Pat starting when the Lowry-DD-2Pat trio is vastly outperforming the Lowry-DD-Scola trio in advanced stats. We don't move the ball effectively, that's not because DD (or Lowry for that matter) is a ball-stopper, it's because that's Casey's gameplan.

You're putting a huge limitation on what a team guy can be. You don't need to be a perimeter shooter to fit nicely into a team game. Having the ability to devastate on the drive or off screens and make excellent passes down low to bigs or kick outs to 3PT shooters helps put pressure on the defense. Spacing isn't only created by shooters, slashers create spacing as well by collapsing the defense and creating more space for the shooters on the outside and drawing attention away from bigs.

I'm sorry that I don't buy into the idea that swapping DD for two role players makes us a better team. What we're missing is good coaching and superstar talent not more role players to add to the ones we already have.

[Miekenstien]

And if the market is unnaturally inflated - pay that anyway?

the market can't be. everything is always what it is worth at that moment.

[psrs1]

Seems to me, keeping DeMar can only be a "miss" with respect to the opportunity cost - foregoing the chance for a "generational" player to keep him . But Masai's hands won't be tied going into free agency. It's just that there aren't going to be many "true-max upgrades" available, but ... que sera, sera ...

But if we do keep DeMar, at $24M, a lot of other things can go "right". I'm not "down" on Casey, quite yet, but can easily imagine that a coaching change might be a great thing. And we still have players (JV, Ross, Bruno) who might deliver on "up-side", during Kyle's window, and better integrate CoJo, DeMarre, etc.. Packaging our 2016 picks might net us somebody useful at the 4, too.

So I can't see keeping DeMar as a "miss", exactly. Not "miss" like a draft "bust", anyway. He's a known quantity, whose numbers may not have quite peaked. His window is wider than Kyle's. Improving his shot selection and assists, even a little, this year are very good things ...

In agreement. Incremental improvements are realistic for DD. We need a solid PF. If can get DD to take hometown discount and be willing to let go of some draft picks and pick up a solid PF things could look a lot better. Your previous suggestion that was ridiculed by some posters to look at Markief Morris might be worth a second look. PP just is not getting the job done at the 4. Luis Scola is adequate but Casey over utilizes him .

[JWash]

So have you watched any Pistons games or not?

Yes I have. What way was there for you to know whether I've watched Pistons games or not? You just made a blind assumption and tried to use it to discredit what I was saying, which isn't really ok or cool at all.

I know what they're play style is but they aren't a good offensive team. Basically they're a poor man's version of SVG's best teams in Orlando when Dwight was in Drummond's role and Jameer was in Reggie's. And I want to point out that while that team did play 4 out, Hedo was used as a pick & roll scorer and creator, so wouldn't DD be able to play that role within that system or no?

And it's very hard to emulate that anyway. Dwight was terrorizing teams inside, I'm sorry I love JV but he's nowhere near late 2000s, early 2010s Dwight. He didn't have a good post game but as a P&R roll man he was a monster and frequently commanded doubles when he caught the ball around the rim. Plus they had the enigma Rashard Lewis who was 6'11, could stroke the 3, handle the ball and make plays off the drive as well.

[Axel]

Yes I have. What way was there for you to know whether I've watched Pistons games or not? You just made a blind assumption and tried to use it to discredit what I was saying, which isn't really ok or cool at all.

I know what they're play style is but they aren't a good offensive team. Basically they're a poor man's version of SVG's best teams in Orlando when Dwight was in Drummond's role and Jameer was in Reggie's. And I want to point out that while that team did play 4 out, Hedo was used as a pick & roll scorer and creator, so wouldn't DD be able to play that role within that system or no?

Well if you watched their games then you'd know that they struggle with the efficiency because they don't have the talent. Jennings hasn't play a game yet and their starting SG played 2 games before undergoing surgery. Their PF spot is filled by a guy who was dumped for nothing and isn't a real fit. Jackson is a good player but can't shoot for shit and is better suited to be an off the bench scorer.

Sure DD can play Hedo's role but since he isn't a 6'10 passing SF next to the original stretch 4 Rashard Lewis, I think it's a role he would struggle in. Better to let Lowry initiate with the ball. We aren't trying to simply replicate those Orlando teams because we have to adjust for our own players strengths.

[Axel]

I know what they're play style is but they aren't a good offensive team.
And it's very hard to emulate that anyway. Dwight was terrorizing teams inside, I'm sorry I love JV but he's nowhere near late 2000s, early 2010s Dwight. He didn't have a good post game but as a P&R roll man he was a monster and frequently commanded doubles when he caught the ball around the rim. Plus they had the enigma Rashard Lewis who was 6'11, could stroke the 3, handle the ball and make plays off the drive as well.

Actually JVs first few years production actually comps to Howard very well. I had a detailed stat breakdown in the "JV comparable big men in the modern era" thread after last year.

[JWash]

Well if you watched their games then you'd know that they struggle with the efficiency because they don't have the talent. Jennings hasn't play a game yet and their starting SG played 2 games before undergoing surgery. Their PF spot is filled by a guy who was dumped for nothing and isn't a real fit. Jackson is a good player but can't shoot for shit and is better suited to be an off the bench scorer.

Sure DD can play Hedo's role but since he isn't a 6'10 passing SF next to the original stretch 4 Rashard Lewis, I think it's a role he would struggle in. Better to let Lowry initiate with the ball. We aren't trying to simply replicate those Orlando teams because we have to adjust for our own players strengths.

- You take DD out of our starting lineup and replace him with Ross (presumably) and the talent level of our starting 5 isn't significantly higher than that Detroit one.
- You should've picked a team with a demonstrably good offensive gameplan and execution as an example instead of picking one of the worst offenses in the NBA.
- DD is a much better player than Hedo was.
- Jameer initiated the ball and had an even lower %ast'd rate than Lowry does right now. He was their primary creator, Hedo secondary.

[The Great One]

And at least I have a plan. Half the plans with keeping DD are simply "hope we get better".

If you are going to bother criticizing an opinion, should at least come up with an idea (TRex?).

DeRozan is the face of the franchise. He's a well respected player around the league. He's an all-star. From i've read he was a big part of the Raps FA recruiting process last summer(tells you everything). They failed on getting Aldridge but they got Carroll. Aldridge from i've read seriously considered the Raptors, why? because of a chance to play w/ Lowry and DeRozan. A chance to play for a winning team. Can't really blame him for choosing the Spurs though.

The point is, the Raps are slowly becoming a FA destination. Why? because they're WINNING + Lowry/DeRozan.

I'm not sure if KD is a real possibility, but one of the main reasons he'd consider playing here next year is because of Lowry and DeRozan. There's no way he'd come here to play w/ a bunch of role players like Ross and Patterson and JV lol. There's just no way. DD and KD btw are good friends too.

Re-sign DeRozan 20mill whatever. Then go after impact players. Go after Durant.

[special1]

Trade Demar for two role players.... lol

Because superstars want to play with role players not other superstars or at the very least all-stars.....this is new to me.

I guess mediocrity is better when Demar isn't a part of it.

Mediocrity comes in many forms.




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[hotfuzz]

The way I see it, if the "best option" is to let DD walk and sign a bunch of replacement level players then I say just fucking blow the whole thing up minus JV, CoJo and the young guys and picks. Makes more sense than thinking that guys like Afflalo and Marvin Williams are going to take this team to the next level.

I'd be down with that. This team is going nowhere as is.

Whats the right price?

I can stomach anywhere from 18-22 mill per. Anything above that is overpay imo

And btw, yeah the way he's playing right now he's definitely a 20mill guy. Easily.

If demar is willing to re-sign for 20 million, I don't think anyone will mind, but we're talking about him re-signing for the max. 29 MILLION FOR 5 YEARS. That's prime Kobe type money. That's craziness.