Everything Derozan

[special1]

Landing a superstar in free agency is a long shot; if we don't land Durant/Horford, then we need a better plan than status quo. I don't expect to land either of them so am planning for a system that should help offset that.

A system that will bring us championships without a superstar or multiple all-stars??? Sign me up!

Your plan assumes that DD would accept your shitty contract offer and come off the bench. I'd argue that your system actually makes us worse because we'll lose an all-star caliber player for nothing. Not sure if your team even makes the playoffs.

I can hear chants of blow it up already! Wait... was that the plan all along?





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[Axel]

I don't really need you evaluating how well I can read, it's degrading and rude. I've read and understood what you're saying just fine.

- I didn't say anything about copying Detroit player for player, just copying or emulating the 4-out system, which is what you're suggesting.

Again, I didn't say just copy or emulate the system; it's been made clear that we install a system and make adjustments to fit take advantage of our players within the scheme. Copying and emulating is what bad teams do, like matching small ball with the Warriors, it's reactionary and doesn't produce results.

So yes, you don't read well because you continuously misquote people. You have since you joined here. It's annoying and frustrating to try and talk to someone who keeps changing your points so that they can argue something different.

[JWash]

Landing a superstar in free agency is a long shot; if we don't land Durant/Horford, then we need a better plan than status quo. I don't expect to land either of them so am planning for a system that should help offset that.

If we don't land Durant or Horford then subbing out DD for a player or duet of players remaining in free agency is not going to improve the team (perhaps Batum, but he'd need to be offered a contract just as risky if not moreso than DD's). You keep talking about not wanting to maintain the status quo, but acquiring role players that you think fit better than DeRozan is going to do just that or make us even worse (the latter being more likely with more onus on Lowry to provide offense for the team).

This notion that DD isn't doing anything positive for us and can be easily replaced by inferior players without the team taking a step back, is just really false. It does not make Raptors better to offload DeRozan and sign a Gerald Henderson (you're talking about fit yet want to sign a homeless man's DeRozan, you realize Hendo has a career TS% of 51% and has never eclipsed 0.074 WS/48?) and Marvin Williams.

Also you said something about just signing them to two year deals well guess what, assuming they agree to that, that still takes away flexibility from us in 2017 so you're not even improving our flexibility at all heading into Lowry's free agency. Again it is not Masai's (or any GM worth his salt) MO to let high value assets walk for nothing in order to sign inferior players.

[Axel]

A system that will bring us championships without a superstar or multiple all-stars??? Sign me up!

Your plan assumes that DD would accept your shitty contract offer and come off the bench. I'd argue that your system actually makes us worse because we'll lose an all-star caliber player for nothing. Not sure if your team even makes the playoffs.

I can hear chants of blow it up already! Wait... was that the plan all along?

We would have multiple all stars, Lowry and JV. Lowry would have space and shooters to work with and JV would finally have the opportunity to work with the ball, with space provided from multiple shooters. Carroll would be significantly better in 4out than he is now. CoJo, Ross and Patterson too. So making 5 players better is supposed to be a worse team? You're entitled to your opinion but I don't believe you at all.

If DD doesn't accept the offer, that's fine. He isn't a star and shouldn't be paid like one.

[JWash]

Again, I didn't say just copy or emulate the system; it's been made clear that we install a system and make adjustments to fit take advantage of our players within the scheme. Copying and emulating is what bad teams do, like matching small ball with the Warriors, it's reactionary and doesn't produce results.

So yes, you don't read well because you continuously misquote people. You have since you joined here. It's annoying and frustrating to try and talk to someone who keeps changing your points so that they can argue something different.

But they are willing to pay him as if the offence is (continued to be) built around him.

People take issue with any suggestion that the team can be better without him.

Look at the Pistons. We have the personnel to run something similar and have more talent then them. They are only a half game back of us.

This suggests to me that you want to emulate Detroit's offense which means "to try to equal or excel; imitate with effort to equal or surpass". I'm not twisting your words or misquoting you man. I'm not putting the words "emulate" and "copying" in quotations because you didn't say those words specifically however you did suggest it with the bolded line.

[special1]

You don't remember correctly. The team went 11-4 in December without DD.

When DD played his best in March, we went 7-8.


OKC isn't a great example because the players in question are significantly better but so is the competition. The West last year was simply a different level of competition.

Axel.... You're better than this.

Demar missed 15 games??? I swear he missed 20+.....

How about you post their real record without Demar


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[Axel]

If we don't land Durant or Horford then subbing out DD for a player or duet of players remaining in free agency is not going to improve the team (perhaps Batum, but he'd need to be offered a contract just as risky if not moreso than DD's). You keep talking about not wanting to maintain the status quo, but acquiring role players that you think fit better than DeRozan is going to do just that or make us even worse (the latter being more likely with more onus on Lowry to provide offense for the team).

This notion that DD isn't doing anything positive for us and can be easily replaced by inferior players without the team taking a step back, is just really false. It does not make Raptors better to offload DeRozan and sign a Gerald Henderson (you're talking about fit yet want to sign a homeless man's DeRozan, you realize Hendo has a career TS% of 51% and has never eclipsed 0.074 WS/48?) and Marvin Williams.

Also you said something about just signing them to two year deals well guess what, assuming they agree to that, that still takes away flexibility from us in 2017 so you're not even improving our flexibility at all heading into Lowry's free agency. Again it is not Masai's (or any GM worth his salt) MO to let high value assets walk for nothing in order to sign inferior players.

Henderson could admirably fill the 6th man role that DD fits, and for a lot less, allowing us to sign a better PF option.

DD is good (not great) but he is very limiting. He's his most effective with the ball in his hands. He doesn't create spacing which is needed for the 4 out system. Casey ball is the only offence that caters to DDs strengths and we've seen enough of it.

[special1]

We would have multiple all stars, Lowry and JV. Lowry would have space and shooters to work with and JV would finally have the opportunity to work with the ball, with space provided from multiple shooters. Carroll would be significantly better in 4out than he is now. CoJo, Ross and Patterson too. So making 5 players better is supposed to be a worse team? You're entitled to your opinion but I don't believe you at all.

If DD doesn't accept the offer, that's fine. He isn't a star and shouldn't be paid like one.

So now JV is an all-star?

And Demar isn't a star.

Boy, our realities are so different.


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[Axel]

Axel.... You're better than this.

Demar missed 15 games??? I swear he missed 20+.....

How about you post their real record without Demar


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I didn't feel like going through line by line. He missed all of December. We went 11-4. You said our record was better with DD in than out but we went 7-8 during DDs hero stretch.

Feel free to do the research yourself if you want to contradict me.

[Axel]

So now JV is an all-star?

And Demar isn't a star.

Boy, our realities are so different.


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Give JV the touches and the space and he can produce like Drummond this year or like Howard in Orlando. That is allstar.

Demar is definitely not a star. Just like Magette and Stackhouse weren't stars.

[Axel]

This suggests to me that you want to emulate Detroit's offense which means "to try to equal or excel; imitate with effort to equal or surpass". I'm not twisting your words or misquoting you man. I'm not putting the words "emulate" and "copying" in quotations because you didn't say those words specifically however you did suggest it with the bolded line.

Similar does not equate copy/emulate. And there are more posts to this equation.

You simply read what you want.

[special1]

I didn't feel like going through line by line. He missed all of December. We went 11-4. You said our record was better with DD in than out but we went 7-8 during DDs hero stretch.

Feel free to do the research yourself if you want to contradict me.

So Demar played in Just 15 games and missed 15 games.....out of 82

Am I the only one noticing the OBVIOUS cherry picking???


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[JWash]

We would have multiple all stars, Lowry and JV. Lowry would have space and shooters to work with and JV would finally have the opportunity to work with the ball, with space provided from multiple shooters. Carroll would be significantly better in 4out than he is now. CoJo, Ross and Patterson too. So making 5 players better is supposed to be a worse team? You're entitled to your opinion but I don't believe you at all.

If DD doesn't accept the offer, that's fine. He isn't a star and shouldn't be paid like one.

You keep talking about "space" but are ignoring the fact that slashers as good as DeRozan create spacing for their teams. Watch how the defense reacts to him getting into the paint, they collapse and try to protect the basket. This creates "space" on the outside for shooters and even diverts attention away from bigs making them great targets for a drop-off pass for an easy score.

I posted these stats before but almost all our shooters shoot a higher percentage when receiving a pass from DeRozan than they do on their normal 3PT%. That's because he's drawing away defensive attention and creating a more open shot for them. Obviously Lowry is a very good slasher as well, but 60% of his shots also come from beyond 16 feet. There's nothing wrong with having multiple guys who can break down defenses and collapse them offensively while creating offense for others.

I just don't buy this idea that DeRozan can't fit into a team concept as a starter. There isn't really much to base that off of because Casey's been coaching him his whole career basically with the main guy on the team always having that "hell or high water" status and us primarily running iso ball.

[Snooch]

If we don't land Durant or Horford then subbing out DD for a player or duet of players remaining in free agency is not going to improve the team (perhaps Batum, but he'd need to be offered a contract just as risky if not moreso than DD's). You keep talking about not wanting to maintain the status quo, but acquiring role players that you think fit better than DeRozan is going to do just that or make us even worse (the latter being more likely with more onus on Lowry to provide offense for the team).

No one said exclusively to replace demar with free agents, in fact trades is what most people would like to see happen.

But even at that....guys who could be had in free agency for around 20-25 million for 2...

sg/sf:
Fournier, Gordon, Mayo, Henderson

pf:
Pau, Anderson, Jones, Mirza, Sullinger, Green

This notion that DD isn't doing anything positive for us

NO ONE HAS SAID THAT!!! That is more of your baiting.

Also you said something about just signing them to two year deals well guess what, assuming they agree to that, that still takes away flexibility from us in 2017 so you're not even improving our flexibility at all heading into Lowry's free agency. Again it is not Masai's (or any GM worth his salt) MO to let high value assets walk for nothing in order to sign inferior players.

Cap takes a nice jump again in 2017, so signing players to a contract at 10 million ish per(which is what was discussed) would not have a huge impact on capspace in 2017 and would still have close to max space....and with the option to resign lowry or not could give us MAximum space plus.

[JWash]

Axel.... You're better than this.

Demar missed 15 games??? I swear he missed 20+.....

How about you post their real record without Demar


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Raptors went 12-9 without DeMar last season. I'm not really sure why he only used the December hot-streak when DeMar missed a game in November (or 2 if you count the Dallas game we lost, I didn't include that in the 12-9) and 5 in January and one in April that we lost (which I also didn't include in 12-9 because I'm pretty sure he was just rested the game).

It's a lower winning percentage than we had on the season, not by much but it is. Completely different narrative than cherry-picking 11-4 to try and suggest the team was better without DeRozan which is factually incorrect. That 11-4 came right after a 13-2 start with DD in the lineup. Then the constant iso ball started to catch up to the team with Lowry cooling off (like he is now in 2015-16) and DD not being there to pick up the slack (and even when DD was playing he wasn't very good last year at all, nowhere near the level he's playing at now or in his other all-star season).