Everything Derozan

[JimiCliff]

Does anyone listen to the "Free Association" podcast? Well in today's episode they had this scoop from an agent they wouldn't name. Apparently after Rudy was traded Demar had scheduled a meeting with Masai once their west coast trip was over after the Laker game. In said meeting DD apparently said "If your planning on tanking, please trade me".

The podcast is by Sportsnet. It can be fond on iTunes. Good stuff.

Goddamit WE MISSED OUR CHANCE

But seriously, Dolan squashing the Lowry trade to the Knicks is becoming a great NBA 'what if'. Our team would look sooooo different...

[LJ2]

would you have been happy if instead of Gay, Demar had been traded for patterson, vasquez, hayes and salmons? because they were playing essentially the same game at that point. The offence was alternating between Demar and Rudy taking inefficient ISO jumpshits over 2 defenders. Inconsistent performances were the name of the game.

Don't think GMs valued Demar much more than Gay.

The all star selection came after the raptors turnaround.

Well, if you were going to trade one of them then it was a good move to trade the one that was due $20 Mil.

[special1]

Well, if you were going to trade one of them then it was a good move to trade the one that was due $20 Mil.

This was so obvious. You get more back for a $19 million contract than you do for 10 million contract. Plus, Gay was stinking up the joint (much more than Demar - remember Gay banning the stat sheet in the locker room after games?)

However, if you look back at the thread at the time, the same posters were actually saying we should keep Gay and his $20 Mil player option instead....

Some of these guys still post weekly about trading Demar.

The more things change, the more they stay the same I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mcHAPPY]

Oh boy, I thought this thread had become laughable with all the macho chest thumping back and forth, but you stick your nose in the air about intelligent conversation, in my response to your "DD had no trade value". Perhaps I just don't share your high intellect, but I disagree, so help a newbie out with intelligent reasoning to back up your bold statement. The team's record is intellectual reasoning/evidence? Okay.

- A highly inefficient chucker
- Had not been to playoffs in 4 years
- Was never an all-star
- Poor defender
- Unable to shoot the 3 beyond spurts
- Wildly inconsistent
- Provided very little other than volume scoring
- Prior to Gay trade 2nd banana on a .333 team
- Starting an extension that at the time, was widely seen as a massive overpay throughout the media covering the league - I can't even begin to speculate what other GMs thought.
- A franchise in disarray after years of Colangelo's blunders who many might have seen as dealing from a position of weakness.


So yes, in my opinion, he had very little trade value in the fall of 2013. I'm not sure why anyone would think differently.



However since that time, no question, he has gained significantly more trade value. Problem now is he is much more valuable to the Raptors, and in particular Casey, than any other team....again in my opinion.


You're welcome to disagree and welcome to the District.

[golden]

Goddamit WE MISSED OUR CHANCE

But seriously, Dolan squashing the Lowry trade to the Knicks is becoming a great NBA 'what if'. Our team would look sooooo different...

Yeah, we would have started the build around Iman Shumpert and then somebody like Dante Exum (if we tanked hard). Then if we got really lucky, we'd have sucked really bad again in 2014-15 and somehow draft Porzingis or Towns. So, absolute best case with the stars aligning perfectly in hindsight, we'd be looking at something like a Porzingis (or Towns), JV, Exum core, plus some minor asset for DD (assuming we traded him before he broke out).

[Chr1s1anL]

If Gay had trade value. Than I'm sure DD had trade value.

[mcHAPPY]

If Gay had trade value. Than I'm sure DD had trade value.

You mean the 6'8" SF with a 7'3" wingspan who had actually performed consistently and on both ends of the court earlier in his career?

And despite this, still managed to return a package of discards, spare parts, and cap fillers?


Yeah, all sorts of value.



You seem to forget this was an out and out tanking move but, as Masai has said, you can't account for chemistry and this trade managed to bring it.

[golden]

If Gay had trade value. Than I'm sure DD had trade value.

Every player has trade value, but let's be honest - at the time of the Gay deal, DD's value on the trade market was really low. He hadn't broken out yet and was trending down from a mediocre start to a career. A lot of questions about whether he was going to be more than a middling player, who you weren't sure if he was a net positive or negative. I say this as a DD supporter.

But to drive home the point: if Lowry's market value was something like Iman Shumpert and a 2nd round pick, then DD would have probably been in the same range or lower, even if you adjust for Lowry's expiring vs. DD being signed for 3 more seasons. People were looking at DD's contract as yet another BC overpay in those days, even at 10M per.

[JimiCliff]

Yeah, we would have started the build around Iman Shumpert and then somebody like Dante Exum (if we tanked hard). Then if we got really lucky, we'd have sucked really bad again in 2014-15 and somehow draft Porzingis or Towns. So, absolute best case with the stars aligning perfectly in hindsight, we'd be looking at something like a Porzingis (or Towns), JV, Exum core, plus some minor asset for DD (assuming we traded him before he broke out).

Disagree with your absolute best case - that would have been winning the 2014 lottery and getting Wiggins, in addition to one of Towns/Porzingis.

And even teaming Wiggins with one of Mudiay/Russell/Okafor is a nice looking foundation.

[JWash]

You mean the 6'8" SF with a 7'3" wingspan who had actually performed consistently and on both ends of the court earlier in his career?

And despite this, still managed to return a package of discards, spare parts, and cap fillers?


Yeah, all sorts of value.



You seem to forget this was an out and out tanking move but, as Masai has said, you can't account for chemistry and this trade managed to bring it.

DeMar likely would've had more value in a trade than Rudy (and arguably Kyle as well since he hadn't emerged as a star yet because of Brick Bros Inc.). DeMar was playing much better than Rudy was, younger and making about half as much money.

[mcHAPPY]

DeMar likely would've had more value in a trade than Rudy (and arguably Kyle as well since he hadn't emerged as a star yet because of Brick Bros Inc.). DeMar was playing much better than Rudy was, younger and making about half as much money.

A debate over who had less value only confirms my point that DD had little to no trade value in the Fall of 2013.

golden makes some golden points:

Every player has trade value, but let's be honest - at the time of the Gay deal, DD's value on the trade market was really low. He hadn't broken out yet and was trending down from a mediocre start to a career. A lot of questions about whether he was going to be more than a middling player, who you weren't sure if he was a net positive or negative. I say this as a DD supporter.

But to drive home the point: if Lowry's market value was something like Iman Shumpert and a 2nd round pick, then DD would have probably been in the same range or lower, even if you adjust for Lowry's expiring vs. DD being signed for 3 more seasons. People were looking at DD's contract as yet another BC overpay in those days, even at 10M per.

All irrelevant now but I just get annoyed by revisionist history.

[JWash]

DD's TS% pushing closer to 55% right now, up to 54.5%.

What's crazy is if he maintains this shot selection it's possible he could actually improve further as the season goes along (he's been a slow starter every year of his career anyway). Right now his finishing around the rim (0-3 feet) is actually at the lowest percentage it's been in 4 years. And his corner 3s (27%) are way worse than normal (36% on his career, 39% the past two years). If any of that corrects itself his TS% could potentially push 56% or so. His percentages from 3-10 and 10-16 feet are higher than we've seen in several seasons, but not that much higher than his career averages.

Maintain this shot selection and we could see something like a 23-4-4, 55.5 TS%, 111-112 oRTG, .160 WS/48 type of season from DD.

[yabadabayolo]

DD's TS% pushing closer to 55% right now, up to 54.5%.

What's crazy is if he maintains this shot selection it's possible he could actually improve further as the season goes along (he's been a slow starter every year of his career anyway). Right now his finishing around the rim (0-3 feet) is actually at the lowest percentage it's been in 4 years. And his corner 3s (27%) are way worse than normal (36% on his career, 39% the past two years). If any of that corrects itself his TS% could potentially push 56% or so. His percentages from 3-10 and 10-16 feet are higher than we've seen in several seasons, but not that much higher than his career averages.

Maintain this shot selection and we could see something like a 23-4-4, 55.5 TS%, 111-112 oRTG, .160 WS/48 type of season from DD.

fuck

and that type of player is a guarenteed for max contract

[A.I]

If only DD can shoot 3 pointers consistently, that small amount of dislike I have for him would decrease significantly. Thats my only problem with him. Defense would be nice, but hey, Harden isn't a good defender either and he is still pretty good.

[breakin_ankles]

DD's TS% pushing closer to 55% right now, up to 54.5%.

What's crazy is if he maintains this shot selection it's possible he could actually improve further as the season goes along (he's been a slow starter every year of his career anyway). Right now his finishing around the rim (0-3 feet) is actually at the lowest percentage it's been in 4 years. And his corner 3s (27%) are way worse than normal (36% on his career, 39% the past two years). If any of that corrects itself his TS% could potentially push 56% or so. His percentages from 3-10 and 10-16 feet are higher than we've seen in several seasons, but not that much higher than his career averages.

Maintain this shot selection and we could see something like a 23-4-4, 55.5 TS%, 111-112 oRTG, .160 WS/48 type of season from DD.

If his season continues to progress the way he is playing right now I will be a huge supporter of resigning him...

I have been one of the biggest supporters of throwing the kitchen sink at Durant, but if DD is showing signs of maintaining this efficiency and continues to distribute as well I feel this team would be better to pass on Durant , retain DD and either trade for or chase in FA one Serge Ibaka

KLow / DD / DC / Ibaka / JV
CoJo / Ross / JJ / Scola