Everything Derozan

[big boi]

Please.

Ross is a tweener. A 2 playing at the 3. He's a ctach and shoot guy. I want a guy whose a true 3 & D. A guy that can drive and shoot. Ross is not that player, nor is he a true bonafide 3.

my understanding is a 3 and D guy is someone that can shoot the 3 effectively and defend the 3 well. I believe Ross will be able to do that. I think he has that in his tool kit. I also think Ross is very limited at the 2 because of his ball handling, and I've seen nothing to change my mind there.

I have been disappointed with his lack of progress this year but I hope that he works very hard on his game and his body in the off season and comes back ready to make a leap next year. If not, I'd be comfortable trading him. Next year. Unless of course we are able to get great value for him this year, which I doubt.

[raptors999]

my understanding is a 3 and D guy is someone that can shoot the 3 effectively and defend the 3 well. I believe Ross will be able to do that. I think he has that in his tool kit. I also think Ross is very limited at the 2 because of his ball handling, and I've seen nothing to change my mind there.

I have been disappointed with his lack of progress this year but I hope that he works very hard on his game and his body in the off season and comes back ready to make a leap next year. If not, I'd be comfortable trading him. Next year. Unless of course we are able to get great value for him this year, which I doubt.

They need to end the Ross as a SF completely and let him use the time to work on being a SG which means shooting off the dribble not going to the rim. Demar as a SF was overmatched physically.

[special1]

Is it time to trade Demar DeRozan

How was tanking a failure if it was never executed?

I said "The Massive Tank Movement was a failure" Nilanka....I guess you missed that part. You were a tank commander weren't you?

You remember the pro tankers....the people who knew the best way to build a team... The only way to keep us out of mediocrity.... lol

Funny how the same posters that thought this roster was soo trash are now saying we're a piece or two away from being a championship calibre team....lol.

#Firecasey

Now they're saying we're just a new coach away?

Take this L pro tankers!

Currently 2nd in the East... 35-17.

Mediocrity feels pretty good I must say ... Rather this than the 76ers!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[planetmars]

I said "The Massive Tank Movement was a failure" Nilanka....I guess you missed that part. You were a tank commander weren't you?

You remember the pro tankers....the people who knew the best way to build a team... The only way to keep us out of mediocrity.... lol

Funny how the same posters that thought this roster was soo trash are now saying we're a piece or two away from being a championship calibre team....lol.

#Firecasey

Now they're saying we're just a new coach away?

Take this L pro tankers!

Currently 2nd in the East... 35-17.

Mediocrity feels pretty good I must say ... Rather this than the 76ers!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tanking could still have been the right move.. the Raptors could still end up in mediocrity. If DeMar gets a big contract and no other star joins the team (so say they resign Amir and Lou), they might just be the new version of the Atlanta Hawks. Only time will tell.

And who says they have to be the 76ers? Milwaukee got the 2nd pick last year and now have a record > .500. And that's with their prized rookie being injured for most of the year.

[Mr.Z]

I said "The Massive Tank Movement was a failure" Nilanka....I guess you missed that part. You were a tank commander weren't you?

You remember the pro tankers....the people who knew the best way to build a team... The only way to keep us out of mediocrity.... lol

Funny how the same posters that thought this roster was soo trash are now saying we're a piece or two away from being a championship calibre team....lol.

#Firecasey

Now they're saying we're just a new coach away?

Take this L pro tankers!

Currently 2nd in the East... 35-17.

Mediocrity feels pretty good I must say ... Rather this than the 76ers!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not how I remember it at all.
Most people I think were blown away at how horribly the Raptors started the season last year, and I think most people just felt that blowing it up was the only way to start over.
I also don't think anyone believed the Gay trade was really going to put us entirely at the bottom of the standing, and for damn sure absolutely no one thought the trade would put us where we are now, not even you. So really, neither side was right or wrong.
Even Masai was pro tank, you gotta remember that. He tried to trade Lowry. Even he didn't think the Rudy trade would pan out the way it has.
And please don't tell me mediocrity feels good. It feels like shit. It's what we've felt ever since we've been fans of this team. That's why so many people we pro tank, people were so sick it and felt hitting rock bottom first was the only way. Can't blame them, it's a logical strategy.

[Jrice9]

Tanking could still have been the right move.. the Raptors could still end up in mediocrity. If DeMar gets a big contract and no other star joins the team (so say they resign Amir and Lou), they might just be the new version of the Atlanta Hawks. Only time will tell.

And who says they have to be the 76ers? Milwaukee got the 2nd pick last year and now have a record > .500. And that's with their prized rookie being injured for most of the year.

Except Milwaukee didn't tank.

They just were horrible by accident.

The reason they're good this year is largely because they kept most of their veterans and didn't completely bottom out and relied on internal improvement.

[NoPropsneeded]

The definition of insanity is saying the same thing over and over on the internet expecting a different result. We're basically all nuts.

[special1]

Is it time to trade Demar DeRozan

That's not how I remember it at all.
Most people I think were blown away at how horribly the Raptors started the season last year, and I think most people just felt that blowing it up was the only way to start over.
I also don't think anyone believed the Gay trade was really going to put us entirely at the bottom of the standing, and for damn sure absolutely no one thought the trade would put us where we are now, not even you. So really, neither side was right or wrong.
Even Masai was pro tank, you gotta remember that. He tried to trade Lowry. Even he didn't think the Rudy trade would pan out the way it has.
And please don't tell me mediocrity feels good. It feels like shit. It's what we've felt ever since we've been fans of this team. That's why so many people we pro tank, people were so sick it and felt hitting rock bottom first was the only way. Can't blame them, it's a logical strategy.

I won't get into the back and forth with you on this as I can tell you recall things differently... Weren't you a pro-tanker?

Saying Masai is pro tank is ridiculous....lol

You know he could've tanked if he wanted to right? He had the opportunity to tank. He was in charge.

Rumour is he wanted Hardaway, Shumpert and 1st round picks for Lowry (who wasn't even an all-star at the time)....who wouldn't say no to that???

Masai is on record as saying that he did not know how the team would react after the trade....He took a wait and see approach. His goal was to put a winning team on the floor.... Not a losing team.

You think Masai is just a lucky guy? Nothing was calculated? He didn't choose players in the trade that he thought could help his team win???

I call b/s and just another way for pro tankers to feel that they were thinking alongside Masai....

The comments I read all over the forums were to trade our better players for players with potential and picks....the whole philosophy was to get worse for a better pick or have multiple picks no? Did that happen? Nope.

We didn't acquire any pick (other than our own) in the 2014 draft. You remember it was supposed to be the draft with multiple future all-stars and franchise players?

Pro tankers Take this L.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Great One]

Problem w/ tanking, and i've been saying this since i've been in this forum. Even if you finished last, there is no guarantanee that you'll get the 1st pick. And even if you get the 1st pick. There's no guarantee that you're going to win a title(that's the goal right?) the Cavs never won a title with LeBron James.

Guess who landed the first pick last year? the Cavs, a team that won 33 games. Middle of the pack team.

As for the team that got Wiggins. Look at where they are now? arguably the worst team in teh NBA.

As an ANTI-TANKER, i'm glad we didn't tank last year. You're the man Masai

[ball4life]

What!!! How the hell are we in the midst of a tank vs anti tank argument here 💀

This is gonna be a looooooong 10 day all star break around RR. SMH.

[DanH]

I'm not saying they should or should not have tanked. But anyone who thinks Masai didn't want to tank hasn't been paying attention. Go listen to that Jeff Weltman interview from a few months back - he states quite clearly that they wanted to deconstruct the team, but couldn't find dance partners willing to give up enough. And every pro-tanker argued for exactly that approach - sell off assets at the highest possible price, gaining long term assets - losing games is a side effect, not a goal, though it is an integral side effect.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I won't get into the back and forth with you on this as I can tell you recall things differently... Weren't you a pro-tanker?

Saying Masai is pro tank is ridiculous....lol

You know he could've tanked if he wanted to right? He had the opportunity to tank. He was in charge.

Rumour is he wanted Hardaway, Shumpert and 1st round picks for Lowry (who wasn't even an all-star at the time)....who wouldn't say no to that???

Masai is on record as saying that he did not know how the team would react after the trade....He took a wait and see approach. His goal was to put a winning team on the floor.... Not a losing team.

You think Masai is just a lucky guy? Nothing was calculated? He didn't choose players in the trade that he thought could help his team win???

I call b/s and just another way for pro tankers to feel that they were thinking alongside Masai....

The comments I read all over the forums were to trade our better players for players with potential and picks....the whole philosophy was to get worse for a better pick or have multiple picks no? Did that happen? Nope.

We didn't acquire any pick (other than our own) in the 2014 draft. You remember it was supposed to be the draft with multiple future all-stars and franchise players?

Pro tankers Take this L.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This post just reminds me how unwilling or unable you were to understand the rebuilding strategy that got branded "pro tank". Despite many people trying to explain that proposed strategy, you were never able to understand or accept that it meant something beyond "lose on purpose to get the #1 pick and hope you draft the next LBJ".

MU was trying to "tank" in the exact way that the "pro tankers" were suggesting - trade established vets for young prospects and/or draft picks, as the starting point for a methodical rebuilding process with the priority on the long-term.

The Gay trade brought young prospects (Vasquez & Patterson) and cap space (Salmons expiring, Hayes expiring the next year).

The proposed Lowry trade would have brought young prospects (Shumpert and/or Hardaway) and draft pick.

It was never about losing on purpose or putting all eggs in a single basket, be it a single pick or a single draft.

The team-building strategy was over your head last year and continues to be, which made/makes it very difficult to have a constructive discussion with you, because you're too busy gloating about something that isn't the "W" you're trying to make it out to be.

Besides, as planetmars said, we'll never know which approach would have been the best, over the immediate, short or long term. So, we move on and continue looking for the 'best' way to build this team to be successful.

As for DeRozan, the last two games have epitomized the best of times and worst of times. DeRozan and/or DC need to decide what DeRozan we're going to see game in and game out - is he an all around player, or is he a dedicated scorer, even if he has to force it. If it's the latter, I want either DC and/or DD gone, because ISO-DD is just bad basketball.

[white men can't jump]

I'm not saying they should or should not have tanked. But anyone who thinks Masai didn't want to tank hasn't been paying attention. Go listen to that Jeff Weltman interview from a few months back - he states quite clearly that they wanted to deconstruct the team, but couldn't find dance partners willing to give up enough. And every pro-tanker argued for exactly that approach - sell off assets at the highest possible price, gaining long term assets - losing games is a side effect, not a goal, though it is an integral side effect.

Just willful ignorance my friend.

[raptors999]

This post just reminds me how unwilling or unable you were to understand the rebuilding strategy that got branded "pro tank". Despite many people trying to explain that proposed strategy, you were never able to understand or accept that it meant something beyond "lose on purpose to get the #1 pick and hope you draft the next LBJ".

MU was trying to "tank" in the exact way that the "pro tankers" were suggesting - trade established vets for young prospects and/or draft picks, as the starting point for a methodical rebuilding process with the priority on the long-term.

The Gay trade brought young prospects (Vasquez & Patterson) and cap space (Salmons expiring, Hayes expiring the next year).

The proposed Lowry trade would have brought young prospects (Shumpert and/or Hardaway) and draft pick.

It was never about losing on purpose or putting all eggs in a single basket, be it a single pick or a single draft.

The team-building strategy was over your head last year and continues to be, which made/makes it very difficult to have a constructive discussion with you, because you're too busy gloating about something that isn't the "W" you're trying to make it out to be.

Besides, as planetmars said, we'll never know which approach would have been the best, over the immediate, short or long term. So, we move on and continue looking for the 'best' way to build this team to be successful.

As for DeRozan, the last two games have epitomized the best of times and worst of times. DeRozan and/or DC need to decide what DeRozan we're going to see game in and game out - is he an all around player, or is he a dedicated scorer, even if he has to force it. If it's the latter, I want either DC and/or DD gone, because ISO-DD is just bad basketball.

Considering how little info comes out of the Raptor FO. The Lowry to Knicks was probably BS from the Knicks. Not saying Lowry wasn't shopped but that wasn't the deal.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Considering how little info comes out of the Raptor FO. The Lowry to Knicks was probably BS from the Knicks. Not saying Lowry wasn't shopped but that wasn't the deal.

That was the deal MU was looking for. Weltman said so publically. It's not a rumor or opinion, it's a fact direct from the Raptors' brass.

The "pro tankers" feel justified because MU wanted/attempted to implement the strategy they were hoping for.

The "anti tankers" feel justified because the Raps did not tank.

intent VS execution - which is more meaningful? it's subjective, I suppose