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  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
    DeRozan appears to have thrived in the Bargnani treatment. He was treated the exact same: guaranteed starter, unlimited minutes, mistakes don't matter.
    That was pre Casey though. What would DeMar be like if Casey had coached him from the get go? Just speculating but I think he would be more specialized like Ross and most definetly a better defender.

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    • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
      That was pre Casey though. What would DeMar be like if Casey had coached him from the get go? Just speculating but I think he would be more specialized like Ross and most definetly a better defender.
      Except Ross was already very good in those areas for a young player. So you could argue that if Casey had DeMar in his first couple of years, he'd have an even shorter leash than Ross because he couldn't shoot or defend, and possibly never get the chance to develop.

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      • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
        Not every player develops the same way, nor do they react to the same kind of treatment.

        One player may become a star from being force-fed minutes regardless of mistakes, another might just develop a series of unbreakable bad habits that lead to them becoming a bust. That same bust may have become a star had they had a shorter leash.

        This may even be true if the two players are on the same team. Tony Parker for example was force-fed minutes pretty much right away, while Manu Ginobili has always had a somewhat inconsistent minute distribution. I think both of them turned out alright, no?
        That's correct, but my impression from the bulk of the comments here is that everyone seems to know exactly what's best for JV except for his head coach.

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        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          Except Ross was already very good in those areas for a young player. So you could argue that if Casey had DeMar in his first couple of years, he'd have an even shorter leash than Ross because he couldn't shoot or defend, and possibly never get the chance to develop.
          Or DeMar could have a much better post/mid range game by now. All the guys are developing well under Casey and the proof is in the wins, yet the comments are all about Casey being the reason why JV isn't developing as quickly as some would like. Ross was getting the short leash and still does when he's having an off night, but for the most part he's learned from a lot of his mistakes and is getting more and more of an opportunity (hardly see him biting on the pump fake like he did all of last year). JV doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes as quickly which is okay being that he is young and still learning the game. But it's not on Casey, it's on JV to pick up what the coach is trying to get through to him.

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          • wallz wrote: View Post
            He'll get those minutes as he gets better. But for now it's hard to say Casey has been making the wrong call since they are the best 4th quarter team in the league
            Well the numbers that were shown don't support the correlation between Val being detrimental in fourth quarters that you are making here.

            Mediumcore wrote: View Post
            Or DeMar could have a much better post/mid range game by now. All the guys are developing well under Casey and the proof is in the wins, yet the comments are all about Casey being the reason why JV isn't developing as quickly as some would like. Ross was getting the short leash and still does when he's having an off night, but for the most part he's learned from a lot of his mistakes and is getting more and more of an opportunity (hardly see him biting on the pump fake like he did all of last year). JV doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes as quickly which is okay being that he is young and still learning the game. But it's not on Casey, it's on JV to pick up what the coach is trying to get through to him.
            The only reason why Ross got an opportunity was because Gay was traded and Casey HAD TO PLAY him.

            We saw this with Ed Davis

            We saw this with Jerryd Bayless

            Casey is a retard at managing young player minutes.

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            • I recall that his Lithuanian national team coach seemed to have a similar yank policy with JV as well last year....or worse did not play him but for a few mins. There were also many disgruntled posters here. In both cases it would seem that the HCs had diminished confidence in JV in important/big games....or that they feel another group gives the team a better chance to win. I would give the HC the benefit of doubt...he has much more info at his disposal.

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              • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                Or DeMar could have a much better post/mid range game by now. All the guys are developing well under Casey and the proof is in the wins, yet the comments are all about Casey being the reason why JV isn't developing as quickly as some would like. Ross was getting the short leash and still does when he's having an off night, but for the most part he's learned from a lot of his mistakes and is getting more and more of an opportunity (hardly see him biting on the pump fake like he did all of last year). JV doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes as quickly which is okay being that he is young and still learning the game. But it's not on Casey, it's on JV to pick up what the coach is trying to get through to him.
                Or is it that the coach does not know how to convey the message properly?

                And it's not just about development in terms of production, it's in terms of confidence. As has been pointed out, this is of huge concern with JV, as he has shown great swagger at times, and at one time was something we never thought we'd have to worry about. This is why comparisons were drawn to the O'Brien/Hibbert situation in Indy a few years ago, because the biggest red flag wasn't that Hibbert (or other young guys) was losing minutes, but that he seemed to have his confidence shaken.

                And a big part of maintaining confidence/swagger is knowing you will get some consistency of opportunity, that you will be rewarded even to some minimal degree when playing well. It's not that Casey has a "my way or the highway" approach. It's fine to be punished when you're not successful on the court. It's that even when a guy does everything you could ask of him he has no clue what kind of treatment he's going to get.

                And if winning is going to be key, a coach should understand simple things like how much we need JV for certain matchups. We will struggle to win playoff series if JV is struggling on a nightly basis. And finding opportunities to get him even minimal minutes in high-pressure situations is incredibly important even for this team's immediate future, not just the long-term, even if he fails in those those situations.

                That BKL games was the perfect example, not just because he used Hayes, but because he rode Hayes (who was ice cold as he'd been sitting on the bench all game) for like a 7-minute stretch rather than even give JV 2 or 3 of those minutes against a potential playoff matchup in a high-pressure situation which would serve as an ideal teaching moment.
                -Hayes had no impact.
                -And especially for Hansbrough, and I repeat this for the 4th or 5th time, he played a 15 minute shift to finish the game. That is totally ludicrous. No coach should have any player out there for 15 minutes straight of game time unless we're talking about trying to ride guys into OT. And just imagine if the game had gone to OT...what would Casey do then? Keep riding an exhausted Tyler? Then put Jonas in totally cold in an even higher pressure situation?
                -JV was playing well in the 3rd, matched up better against BKL's bigs than Hayes (who again, had been on the bench all game), and would make it easier to find ways to rest Hansbrough and even Amir in some staggered big rotation in the 4th if he wanted to, since early in the 4th he needed to find a way to rest Hansbrough (and can't play JV with Hayes), and if he put JV with Amir out there, it also gives him the opportunity to rest Amir again for a minute or two in the mid-4th (bringing Hansbrough back in next to JV) if JV is playing well, and if he's not, it just means you ride Amir for 8-9 minutes instead of 6, and instead of having Hansbrough out there for 15 (!!).

                I can't believe anyone would defend Casey's rotations when completely ignoring his treatment of youth, he clearly has no clue how to manage minutes at all. He played an energy guy for 15 minutes...what energy is he supposed to play with near the end of that?

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                • Bendit wrote: View Post
                  I recall that his Lithuanian national team coach seemed to have a similar yank policy with JV as well last year....or worse did not play him but for a few mins. There were also many disgruntled posters here. In both cases it would seem that the HCs had diminished confidence in JV in important/big games....or that they feel another group gives the team a better chance to win. I would give the HC the benefit of doubt...he has much more info at his disposal.
                  Though a national team coach does not have the luxury of incorporating development into their strategy. Casey has 82 games in the regular season to try and find a way to balance development and winning. He has not been awful with it all year, but he also hasn't been consistent, or at least so it seems.

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                  • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                    Well the numbers that were shown don't support the correlation between Val being detrimental in fourth quarters that you are making here.
                    Not saying JV is detrimental directly. Just that people shouldn't complain with Casey's 4th quarter rotations, because they've been extremely effective, with or without JV

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                    • Mediumcore wrote: View Post
                      That was pre Casey though. What would DeMar be like if Casey had coached him from the get go? Just speculating but I think he would be more specialized like Ross and most definetly a better defender.
                      Interesting point.

                      In DeRozan's first year under Casey he certainly took a step back (DD's 3rd year).

                      Would Casey have ever played him as a 19 year old rookie? Would he have received the Ross/JV treatment? I think so.

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                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        I played 5 years of CIS ball
                        ?

                        I like this, yet we don't agree about a few things.... this is not logical to me.

                        hahahaha

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                        • I don't understand some of you posters? Since you guys are saying JV should only get minutes if he plays well and earns them right? Well there has been numerous times this season where JV has played good and got rewarded by sitting on the bench the whole 4th or like 90% of the 4th!!! Like in the Brooklyn game JV played well in the 3rd to then get rewarded by sitting on the fucking bench for the whole 4th!!! How the fuck is someone gonna learn anything if he gets benched when he plays well or plays bad? He doesn't even know if he's gonna get minutes because its not only dictated by his play! So explain that to me ? When a young player plays well occasionally but often never gets playing time for doing a good job? And then JV fucking looks out onto the floor and see's chuck Hayes playing extended minutes for no reason at all !!!
                          "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                          • This i agree with.

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                            • JV is soft he doesn't like contact why do u think he always fades away from the bucket when doing that dumb hook shot he barely takes it up strong, and he needs to work on rebounding with 2 hands instead of always tipping it out. The game is simply too fast for him and he deserves to be yanked when making dumb mistakes Casey did the same thing with Ross last year and look how much it has payed off this year, if he force feeds him minutes he will cost us playoff games.
                              Last edited by UnderdogRaptors; Wed Mar 12th, 2014, 05:27 PM.
                              I been singing and rapping I make a killin' in both If i had to choose a Jackson man I'm feelin' like Bo ~ king drizzy

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                              • I like this too

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