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  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'd like to clarify. Gang rebounding implies to me that we are getting rebounds but don't just depend on one or two "horses" for that. You're not rebounding at all if you finish 26th.

    For much of Casey's tenure, we've been a bad rebounding team, not a gang rebounding team. And his tendency to go small has just made things worse, especially since most of our smaller players have not really been standout rebounders at their positions.
    Gang-rebounding means your perimeter players are also relied upon to get the defensive board. I don't know the numbers well enough to say where we were at in terms of parity between our bigs and our smalls, except that Jonas rebounded pretty well overall (I think he was better offensively though), and we were shitty as a team (better offensively). Perhaps we tried to depend more on Jonas as a rebounder last season to ill-effect because the defense did not have him in good position.

    Jonas is getting to a point in terms of strength and conditioning where he can do more of the heavy lifting, can really start outletting the ball with gusto. We're more athletic this year so rebounding and transition-game have to potential to improve in unison.
    Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Wed Sep 30th, 2015, 03:02 PM.

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    • "We’ve changed some things that hopefully help him, that will help him keep closer to the bucket. It’s not rocket science or anything earth shattering. We’re doing some things to keep him closer to the bucket. Number one, help him in the pick ‘n roll situations. Number two, help him rebounding-wise on the defensive end. Our defensive rebounding percentage was terrible, our guards outrebounded our bigs in defensive rebounding percentage. We got to get our bigs upto that level, because you’re in trouble when your guards outrebound your interior people"

      I just wanted to put the actual quote back up so we can all read this again. I can see how it can be easily misinterpreted because of the wording and quite frankly so many here are just jumping at the chance to slam Casey any chance they get. But if you read it like he is speaking of the centre position or bigs in general I think you can identify he isn't saying JV did a poor job of rebounding but instead of correcting a problem with having JV out of position because of penetration on the perimeter and in pick n' roll situations.

      At least that is how read it anyway.

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      • LJ2 wrote: View Post

        I just wanted to put the actual quote back up so we can all read this again. I can see how it can be easily misinterpreted because of the wording and quite frankly so many here are just jumping at the chance to slam Casey any chance they get. But if you read it like he is speaking of the centre position or bigs in general I think you can identify he isn't saying JV did a poor job of rebounding but instead of correcting a problem with having JV out of position because of penetration on the perimeter and in pick n' roll situations.

        At least that is how read it anyway.
        My problem is that the defensive rebounding percentages he's referring to don't back up his statement...

        It's hard to take anything seriously when the stats that back him up aren't actually accurate.

        The changes he's making are what we want. But the whole reason why the changes are happening would appear to be based on something that isn't true.

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        • there is a correlation between sending more people to rebound and transition defense. If you have one or two really dominant rebounders you can send everyone back on D quicker as well as have both wings run out on transition O instead of D. Thats why if someone like Reggie Evans could hit 15ft wide open jump shot at 45% he would be a max player
          For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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          • I think potential exists for JV to hit 36 minutes a game now.

            her per 36 is

            16pts - 12 rebounds and 1.5 blocks a game

            thats assuming he does improve

            which means he will average 18 points 14 boards and 2 blocks. This will be his first all star season.

            This best case scenario brought to you by: thead...the only way to fly
            For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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            • btw I will be purchasing a JV gold jersey this year...book it
              For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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              • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                "We’ve changed some things that hopefully help him, that will help him keep closer to the bucket. It’s not rocket science or anything earth shattering. We’re doing some things to keep him closer to the bucket. Number one, help him in the pick ‘n roll situations. Number two, help him rebounding-wise on the defensive end. Our defensive rebounding percentage was terrible, our guards outrebounded our bigs in defensive rebounding percentage. We got to get our bigs upto that level, because you’re in trouble when your guards outrebound your interior people"

                I just wanted to put the actual quote back up so we can all read this again. I can see how it can be easily misinterpreted because of the wording and quite frankly so many here are just jumping at the chance to slam Casey any chance they get. But if you read it like he is speaking of the centre position or bigs in general I think you can identify he isn't saying JV did a poor job of rebounding but instead of correcting a problem with having JV out of position because of penetration on the perimeter and in pick n' roll situations.

                At least that is how read it anyway.
                Everyone is fine with the approach. One of the biggest reasons for the bad defensive rebounding was the defensive system they employed (that system was just bad at so many things) so it's good that that's apparently changing.

                The underlined part though is just wrong by any possible measure for which you could look for. No stats or even the eye test would support that. The only guard that I can even remember ever crashing the boards was Lowry.

                He's doing the right thing here for (apparently) the wrong reason. It's more than fine to point it out.
                Last edited by Just Is; Wed Sep 30th, 2015, 03:34 PM.
                "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                  Gang-rebounding means your perimeter players are also relied upon to get the defensive board. I don't know the numbers well enough to say where we were at in terms of parity between our bigs and our smalls, except that Jonas rebounded pretty well overall (I think he was better offensively though), and we were shitty as a team (better offensively). Perhaps we tried to depend more on Jonas as a rebounder last season to ill-effect because the defense did not have him in good position.

                  Jonas is getting to a point in terms of strength and conditioning where he can do more of the heavy lifting, can really start outletting the ball with gusto. We're more athletic this year so rebounding and transition-game have to potential to improve in unison.
                  But again...we didn't gang rebound. We were just bad at rebounding. Our perimeter guys weren't relied upon to get the board. Our bigs were expected to challenge 3s and get the board if that's what it came to. Our wings/guards rarely came in to help. *The biggest exception being Lowry, and to a lesser extent, DeMar (who I say lesser extent because he has far better tools than Lowry to get boards but doesn't do better).

                  I come back to...gang rebounding means you're actually rebounding. We were a terrible rebounding team for two big reasons. Our system pulled our bigs away from the basket too much (what Casey is talking about here). And we generally lacked good rebounders at all spots that weren't C. Lowry rebounds pretty well for a PG, and DeMar is decent for a wing (but far from great). Everyone else is average or worse, except maybe JJ who spent a big chunk of the season in the doghouse and got the least minutes from our rotation guys.

                  We weren't gang rebounding, we were gang sucking at rebounding.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Sep 30th, 2015, 05:32 PM.

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                  • white men can't jump wrote: View Post

                    We weren't gang rebounding, we were gang sucking at rebounding.
                    Anyone want to touch that one?

                    Lol
                    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

                    If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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                    • Bandit wrote: View Post
                      My problem is that the defensive rebounding percentages he's referring to don't back up his statement...

                      It's hard to take anything seriously when the stats that back him up aren't actually accurate.

                      The changes he's making are what we want. But the whole reason why the changes are happening would appear to be based on something that isn't true.
                      You have to keep in mind what Casey is referring to may be situational defensive rebounds on certain impact plays that the coaches monitor. They have stats on top of stats which they monitor which we don't have access to and their interpretation of those stats could be widely different from us. Like we may see that JV grabs 10 boards a game and Lowry 5, but how many of the boards JV is grabbing are contested? How many of Lowry's are contested? How many of Jv's Rebs are off recoveries from when he had to defend and get back, are weak side etc., etc. We don't know what Casey is referring to but it's really unlikely that he just spouts numbers.

                      What is great news though is that JV and other bigs will be put in a position to succeed in an area where they struggled last season (due to system and guard personnel that could not defend

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                      • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        The fuss is that he singles out Jonas, and basically spreads misinformation that makes the kid look bad at something that he's actually very good (if not elite) at, and far and away the best on the team.

                        Admitting that the system put bigs out of position. That's fine.

                        Saying they need to change the system because Jonas (and our other bigs) were rebounding worse than our guards...That's not, especially since none of our guards put up better rebounding %s than our bigs.
                        it's just the stupidity of the whole thing. and just when it looks like he's finally fucking acknowledging there's a problem, it turns out he's got it wrong yet again.

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                        • My favourite part was when he said about the changes: "It’s not rocket science or anything earth shattering."

                          No shit. That's why people were so frustrated when no changes were made last season.
                          Last edited by Mess; Wed Sep 30th, 2015, 05:52 PM.
                          Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                          • Mess wrote: View Post
                            My favourite part was when he said about the changes: "It’s not rocket science or anything earth shattering."

                            No shit. That's why people were so frustrated when no changes weren't made last season.
                            He doesn't make adjustments.

                            He was just taking notes for next year.
                            "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                            "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                            • Its funny that some people really think their more knowledgeable about basketball than Casey. There is no place like RR.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • Mess wrote: View Post
                                My favourite part was when he said about the changes: "It’s not rocket science or anything earth shattering."

                                No shit. That's why people were so frustrated when no changes weren't made last season.
                                In fact, I remember myself using the expression "it's not rocket science" tons of times last year when trying to justify such adjustments many of us wanted the coach to make. We'd bring up an adjustment, Casey-backers would be like "what you think you know more than the NBA coach with a ring?", and I or someone else would be like "it's not rocket science, these are obvious problems that clearly need adjustments".

                                **You know, like this kind of statement
                                Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                Its funny that some people really think their more knowledgeable about basketball than Casey. There is no place like RR.
                                Well apparently Chr1s1ianL, Casey is seeing obvious ways to try and address obvious problems that some of us were complaining about from the first weeks of last season. After all, it's not rocket science.

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