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Bargnani vs. Vince Carter - Raptors Legacy

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  • #31
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    The way Carter left Toronto has a huge bearing (for me personally) on whether or not he should have his number retired. He did not leave with class.. in my opinion Jose should be near to the top of the list of retired jerseys but he didn't have much of an impact on the court.

    The Raptors could do what Orlando did and put #6 in the rafters for the 'Fans' being their 'sixth man'.. lol

    The list of retired jerseys can be found here:
    http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-retired-numbers.shtml
    I too still feel the hurt with how VC left but i think the positives farther outweighs the negatives he did for Toronto and the Raptors.

    I think his jersey definitely needs to be retired and hung on the ACC rafters.

    I dont believe Jose has accomplished enough to have his jersey retired and put up there.

    VC and Bosh most definitely.

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    • #32
      joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
      This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

      Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

      According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
      This... Vince is a virtual Hall-of-Fame lock.
      Last edited by Xixak; Fri Aug 9, 2013, 01:15 PM.

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      • #33
        joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        This has been discussed at length before, but the case for Vince making the HOF is actually ALOT stronger than some would have you believe. But if Vince isn't inducted, he would be only the second player to appear in 8 All-Star games, and not be selected.

        Eric Freeman (found here) and Zach Lowe (found here) have made some very strong cases for Vince in the HOF.

        According to Basketball-Reference.com, Vince is 14th in line- out of all active players, to be inducted to the HOF, with a probability of 76.8%.
        I think he should be inducted. For sure.

        Im surprised Chauncey only has a 22% chance, considering he has a ring, was a finals MVP and numerous all-star, all-nba and defensive team apprearances.

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        • #34
          I hate when people envy Vince Carter like he's some god. You guys do know that even if we didn't have Vince, T Mac would've easily given us what Vince did?
          and after the way he ditched the franchise you guy's want to retire his Jersey? Do you know how pathetic that makes our team look. All the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.

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          • #35
            NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
            I hate when people envy Vince Carter like he's some god. You guys do know that even if we didn't have Vince, T Mac would've easily given us what Vince did?
            and after the way he ditched the franchise you guy's want to retire his Jersey? Do you know how pathetic that makes our team look. All the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.
            Dude T-Mac was gone to Orlando regardless.

            And part of the reason he wasn't playing like a star in Toronto is because we were kind of using him as a stretch 4 lol.

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            • #36
              Till we win a championship i don't think anyone deserves to have their Jersey retired. UNLESS someone like Amir Johnson plays out the rest of their career here.

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              • #37
                Xixak wrote: View Post
                Dude T-Mac was gone to Orlando regardless.

                And part of the reason he wasn't playing like a star in Toronto is because we were kind of using him as a stretch 4 lol.
                In a scenario where we draft someone else instead of Carter. T Mac would end up being the focal point and thus would have stayed here and put up the numbers he did in Orlando.

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                • #38
                  NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                  the BS about "Putting Canada on the map" doesn't have as much to do with Carter as you all think. The Raptors were already beginning to get popular after the Drafting of Mighty Mouse and T Mac. It just all came to together coincidentally when Carter got drafted. The Dunk contest and a few playoff games vs the Sixers is all i'm giving him credit for, based off that he SHOULD NOT have his jersey retired.
                  I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but weren't you like 5 when this was all going down? Lol

                  Vince Carter took the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto, and Canada for that matter, from a 4/10 to 10/10, and in doing so, not just revitalized a fanbase; he gave birth to a whole fanbase.

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                  • #39
                    joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                    I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but weren't you like 5 when this was all going down? Lol

                    Vince Carter took the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto, and Canada for that matter, from a 4/10 to 10/10, and in doing so, not just revitalized a fanbase; he gave birth to a whole fanbase.
                    Yes i was quite young. But i still know how it went down, i had cousins who used to follow the Raptors back then. Honestly i think we're overrating his impact. If it wasn't Vince it would have been T Mac or someone else that put us on the map. Vince's crazy dunking skills played a big role though, i'll give you that.

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                    • #40
                      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                      In a scenario where we draft someone else instead of Carter. T Mac would end up being the focal point and thus would have stayed here and put up the numbers he did in Orlando.
                      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                      Yes i was quite young. But i still know how it went down, i had cousins who used to follow the Raptors back then. Honestly i think we're overrating his impact. If it wasn't Vince it would have been T Mac or someone else that put us on the map. Vince's crazy dunking skills played a big role though, i'll give you that.
                      Dude no. TMac left because he wanted to play in his hometown.

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                      • #41
                        Ya, I didn't see us paying TMac the money he wanted, regardless of whether we had Vince or Antawn.

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                        • #42
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          I don't want this to come off the wrong way, but weren't you like 5 when this was all going down? Lol

                          Vince Carter took the popularity of the Raptors in Toronto, and Canada for that matter, from a 4/10 to 10/10, and in doing so, not just revitalized a fanbase; he gave birth to a whole fanbase.
                          Revitalized?

                          A bit dramatic no? The fan base was 3 years young when he was drafted.

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                          • #43
                            TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                            I too still feel the hurt with how VC left but i think the positives farther outweighs the negatives he did for Toronto and the Raptors.

                            I think his jersey definitely needs to be retired and hung on the ACC rafters.

                            I dont believe Jose has accomplished enough to have his jersey retired and put up there.

                            VC and Bosh most definitely.
                            I would personally find it humiliating to retire a jersey for someone who gets booed (and sometimes violently) for playing against the home team. So therefore I would not want to retire either Bosh's or Vince's jersey. The team has been awful.. it should not be celebrating its awfulness. Once they start winning then we can talk about retiring jerseys.

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                            • #44
                              Craig wrote: View Post
                              Neither. This franchise has done zero, nothing, it hasn't done shit. Nothing really big, and nothing really small has happened for it. Neither player really leaves anything more than statistical evidence that they once played in Toronto.

                              Fans like to be dramatic.
                              Agree

                              Xixak wrote: View Post
                              dude without Vince we probably wouldn't have a team right now. He was one of if not the most popular player(s) in the league during his time here (and even when he moved on to New Jersey). He's the reason basketball has gotten so big in Toronto, not just at the NBA level but now you have kids in the GTA aspiring to be in the NBA, that was not happening before he got here.

                              I shudder to think about what state (lol do you see what I did there) this team might be in if we had drafted Antawn Jamison instead of Carter.
                              Agree

                              Nilanka wrote: View Post
                              In no way does Carter deserve to have his jersey retired in Toronto. I acknowledge he's the best player to ever wear a uniform, but that speaks more about how crappy this franchise has been since inception.

                              Hall-of-famers deserve to have their jerseys retired. Carter isn't a hall-of-famer.
                              Vince is the best player the raps have ever had. He also took us to game seven of round two, which is the most playoff wins we've ever had I one season. But I don't see how we retire his jersey, unless he comes back and is a key role player that gets us deep into the playoffs again (and I don't see that happening).

                              Carter may get into the hall of fame, but I don't think he deserves to have his jersey retired in toronto.

                              NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                              Yes i was quite young. But i still know how it went down, i had cousins who used to follow the Raptors back then. Honestly i think we're overrating his impact. If it wasn't Vince it would have been T Mac or someone else that put us on the map. Vince's crazy dunking skills played a big role though, i'll give you that.
                              I think you are seriously underestimating his impact. T-Mac (or someone else) may have given the raptors the numbers and wins that Carter did, but Carter reached a level in his first 3 years in Toronto in terms of STAR power that Macgrady never matched. Vince Carter sold out every stadium he played. Not just Toronto, EVERY stadium. Everyone wanted to see what he would do next.

                              Unfortunately, he decided to trade the best shot in basket-ball (dunk/close to the rim) for the worst shot in basketball (Mid range J).

                              Vince Carter is the only Athlete that I've waited in line for 2 hours to get their signature. He is also the only athlete who's signature I've torn up and burned in a garbage can. I didn't watch basketball for 3 years because of Vince. He is undoubtedly the best AND most talented player we've ever had, and the only bonafide SUPERSTAR we've had in franchise history. But I don't think he deserves a jersey in or rafters.

                              Lebron deserves to have his jersey retired in Cleveland before Vince gets his in Toronto, don't think that either is likely to happen.
                              Last edited by ezz_bee; Fri Aug 9, 2013, 02:39 PM.
                              "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                              "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                              "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                              • #45
                                Craiger wrote: View Post
                                Revitalized?

                                A bit dramatic no? The fan base was 3 years young when he was drafted.
                                Sorry, I meant to say that he didn't so much 'revitalize', as he did 'give to birth to'.

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