Raptors 2021-2022 Preseason + Training Camp

[slaw]

I agree with this.... but. I haven't really EVER seen a player throw their teammate under the bus like Joel did. He wasn't WRONG. Nor was Doc. But they were idiotic not to bite their lip. (Not surprising from Joel, sadly.)

I totally agree with all you're saying Slaw and then in the same breath feel like 'yeah, y'all have created an environment where there's zero percent chance Ben can/will step on the floor with you again. I definitely haven't seen a situation quite this untenable, that I can recall.

Oh, don't get me wrong. Simmons definitely has a right to feel aggrieved about the way Embiid and Rivers threw him under the bus. 100%. You don't do that to a teammates. Sometimes a coach can do it publicly but not the way Doc did. At the same time, if you expect to be treated with equity you must do equity and I'm not sure Simmons had the moral high ground vis-a-vis those guys, so it's tough for him to act too hard done by publicly.

Thing is, Simmons could have demanded a trade and even publicly called out Doc and Joel and maybe even walked away looking like the victim in it all but his behavior has only hurt his own reputation. What he's doing is self-defeating, even if he is 100% in the right.

[KeonClark]

Yeah I think both sides have played it bad from a pr standpoint.

This is the correct take. Nobody has handled it well. Simmons is immature, Morey is a stubborn fool for the trade demand show he made all summer, and embiid as usual is just a loudmouth who doesn't care about his quotes going all over the internet.

[GOLDBLUM]

He needs to show up, act like an asshole, sabotage practices, pout and get sent home like a 12 year old? Okay, that's one take. The other thing he could have done is show up, do his job properly, pump up his trade value, and make himself an attractive player for lots of teams. Leaving aside the professional aspect of it all, a mature, well-adjusted man does not behave like this and it speaks poorly of his character.

Lots of teams will never trade for Ben Simmons after this cause he has shown is both untrustworthy and unreliable. You can't have the most important on your team be that guy. There will be some team that will roll the dice but it will almost certainly end poorly there, too.

I agree with this.... but. I haven't really EVER seen a player throw their teammate under the bus like Joel did. He wasn't WRONG. Nor was Doc. But they were idiotic not to bite their lip. (Not surprising from Joel, sadly.)

I totally agree with all you're saying Slaw and then in the same breath feel like 'yeah, y'all have created an environment where there's zero percent chance Ben can/will step on the floor with you again. I definitely haven't seen a situation quite this untenable, that I can recall.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Yeah I think both sides have played it bad from a pr standpoint.

[slaw]

Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.

He needs to show up, act like an asshole, sabotage practices, pout and get sent home like a 12 year old? Okay, that's one take. The other thing he could have done is show up, do his job properly, pump up his trade value, and make himself an attractive player for lots of teams. Leaving aside the professional aspect of it all, a mature, well-adjusted man does not behave like this and it speaks poorly of his character.

Lots of teams will never trade for Ben Simmons after this cause he has shown is both untrustworthy and unreliable. You can't have the most important on your team be that guy. There will be some team that will roll the dice but it will almost certainly end poorly there, too.

[GOLDBLUM]

I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

It could perhaps be hilarious ... for a moment. I want the sixers to fail as much as anybody. I do however, fear it could slip over into the uncomfortable and perhaps slide into the 'deeply sad' territory. I'm thinking Oliver McCaul v Lennox Lewis, for those who were watching that at the time, like myself... That's something I'll never forget.

[Hotshot]

that is EXACTLY the type of TV we need. also good movie reference.

Honestly what a fragile ego Ben and some of those athletes have. Give me the amount of money he makes and boo me for 48 minutes a game for the whole season, I will embrace it and laugh all the way to the bank.



SAY GOODNIGHT TO THE BAD GUY!

[TrueTorontoFan]

I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

that is EXACTLY the type of TV we need. also good movie reference.

[TrueTorontoFan]

The horrible precedent was everyone publicly throwing Ben under the bus when they lost in the playoffs and taking zero blame for themselves. That started this whole shit show. Could you imagine Masai and Casey doing that to Derozan?

They also easily could have traded him by now and avoided this as well. That would be the right thing to do after publicly blaming him for all their ills. It's not Ben's fault he's still on Philly having to put up this charade.

It's a bad situation but the only one who can fix it is Morey, not Ben. Ben is doing what he needs to do to get paid while Morey screws around.

There is no question from me personally that it isn't all on Ben. I think it is a move they should have made over a year ago. They should have either picked Ben or Embiid a while ago. I think this is an argument in favor of either. I think they could have gotten some great players for Simmons last year if that is the direction they picked. They had a coach who would put Ben in the Dunker spot yet give Embiid the ball above the paint or even at the edge of the paint and now your two best offensive weapons are clogging up the space. They didn't do enough pick and roll between the two. Embiid should be the pitch man in DHO to Ben Simmons and have Embiid pop out to mid range or 3 point shot if you want. Ben is and was dangerous going downhill. They opted not to do this. Hence it didn't work.

Then yes you get into the whole drama between doc, the organization, embiid and him. Not good. He didn't help his standing they made it worse.

[Hotshot]

I would actually like to see Ben playing in front of the 76'ers crowd. The reaction is going to be hilarious:

[inthepaint]

Simmons is unwilling to shoot, and unwilling to play other positions to try to mitigate that. He doesn't recognize that as an area he needs to work on as a point-guard (including free throws), and deflects it by doubling down on how good is on other areas, rather than owning it and pledging to improve like other top paid players. That makes it very difficult to keep him on the floor in late playoff games, and as such, very overpaid at 30M.

This was common knowledge before any of coach comments and ensuing holdout. It has been widely pointed out by a large part of the 6ers fanbase for years.

Having said all that, it is the organization's job to recognize what they have as an asset. If you like him as a 30M player on your team, stand by him and stick to him, publicly and privately. if you don't like him at 30M, try to trade him for a realistic value you yourself is recognizing is lower. They did neither: threw him under bus publicly, but then asked for the sun & moon on trades. Best outcome here for them is have him play regular season games so they're further removed from this shitstorm, then quietly trade him for realistic value at the deadline. Or sell low now if you think him in the locker room till the deadline would be too detrimental.

[GOLDBLUM]

I am not sure you can say the Sixers situation isn't at all on Ben Simmons given what happened at LSU and the previous issues they had with him not working with coaches they hired, etc. This has been brewing for a long time. Rivers and Embiid didn't help the situation after the playoffs but that was the culmination of a season (and seasons) worth of frustration with the guy. I agree that the organization hasn't handled it well but Simmons' behavior is still not acceptable for a professional who is supposed to be a top player in the top league in the world.

[slaw]

I am not sure you can say the Sixers situation isn't at all on Ben Simmons given what happened at LSU and the previous issues they had with him not working with coaches they hired, etc. This has been brewing for a long time. Rivers and Embiid didn't help the situation after the playoffs but that was the culmination of a season (and seasons) worth of frustration with the guy. I agree that the organization hasn't handled it well but Simmons' behavior is still not acceptable for a professional who is supposed to be a top player in the top league in the world.

[bertarapsfan]

I don't really care cause it's good for the Raps if there is chaos in Philly but having a young star in the league throwing a public temper tantrum and sabotaging his team is not something I can get behind cause it sets a horrible precedent going forward.

I usually dont like when players do this public hold out thing. But this is a completely different situation from say Harden or AD.

Those guys want out because they wanted to ring chase/team up with better players leaving the organizations who built them up and molded there team around them for years.

The Ben situation is all on the organization, they brought in a new GM trying to move him behind the scenes last year, they probably could have got Harden if Morey wasn't so stingy with adding something to that deal for Houston... Ben still seemed like he wanted to be there at that point. Then after blowing it again they make absolutely everything public somehow increase the ask for Ben after a horrible playoff series and chastise him.. At this point if your the player the organization is doing everything to disrespect you get you off the team.. Then when they can't do that they want him to act professional? Morey and Doc come if for one year and say that it's this guys fault get him out of here.. You want to do that behind closed doors fine. But they made it public first and they get what they deserve. That would never happen in a world class organization.

You get what you give, The way i see it this isn't a case of player empowerment gone to far. It's a case of bad player management, bad assets management and losing a key part of the locker room..

The sixers wanted to hook up with someone else, while still keeping the option open to get back together after they couldn't find a long term relationship.. Why should Ben be their Holla Back Girl?

[planetmars]

Let's hope Philly can hold out until January at least.. then we can trade Trent and Dragic for Ben. I'd welcome that trade. Half our team can't shoot anyway, so he'd fit right in.