The Raptors and the 2015 Draft

[octothorp]

Right.

Look, we're talking about the 20th overall pick here NOT the 5th overall pick, not a lottery pick, not a top 10 pick.

This is not hockey or baseball or football where you can get an all star caliber player or even a franchise player when you're drafting in that range. This is BASKETBALL, best case scenario for the Raps is they get a ROLE PLAYER at 20. If the Raps can move that pick for a player that can help you win games, you do that in a HEARTBEAT.

People needs to stop overvaluing this pick.

You don't really know what best-case scenario means, do you? Are you really suggesting that nobody will draft anything better than a roleplayer from the 20th pick onwards in the draft? Best case scenario is a guy like Rudy Gobert, or Draymond Green, or Jimmy Butler. And that's just going back 4 years. Some years, that 18-26 range is filled with guys who spend only a couple years in that range. Other years, that range is full of guys who go on to be good starters in the league.

No, choosing a guy who will help you win a few more games this year, over a draft pick that may net you a key piece of a future championship team, is not something you do in a heartbeat. There are countless factors to weigh, from years-under-contract, to salary implications, to team fit, to direction of the team over the coming years, to depth of a particular draft class.

[Chr1s1anL]

Right.

Look, we're talking about the 20th overall pick here NOT the 5th overall pick, not a lottery pick, not a top 10 pick.

This is not hockey or baseball or football where you can get an all star caliber player or even a franchise player when you're drafting in that range. This is BASKETBALL, best case scenario for the Raps is they get a ROLE PLAYER at 20. If the Raps can move that pick for a player that can help you win games, you do that in a HEARTBEAT.

People needs to stop overvaluing this pick.

Amen!

[mcHAPPY]

Right.

Look, we're talking about the 20th overall pick here NOT the 5th overall pick, not a lottery pick, not a top 10 pick.

This is not hockey or baseball or football where you can get an all star caliber player or even a franchise player when you're drafting in that range. This is BASKETBALL, best case scenario for the Raps is they get a ROLE PLAYER at 20. If the Raps can move that pick for a player that can help you win games, you do that in a HEARTBEAT.

People needs to stop overvaluing this pick.

Shit.

Why do nba teams value scouting so much then?

I didn't realize there were never any good players were ever drafted after 19.

And what about e cheap rookie labour? Isn't that a good thing? And the restricted free agency process after 4 years? And the ability to keep a guy for up to 8-9 years to actually build a culture and foundation?

All this time I've been wrong....... Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.

[mcHAPPY]

Steve Kyler: Lakers are also trying to move out of the 27 and Boston trying to move out of 28 too… no surprise on either – both covet capspace

Round out that dleague roster Masai!!

[Mess]

Right.

Look, we're talking about the 20th overall pick here NOT the 5th overall pick, not a lottery pick, not a top 10 pick.

This is not hockey or baseball or football where you can get an all star caliber player or even a franchise player when you're drafting in that range. This is BASKETBALL, best case scenario for the Raps is they get a ROLE PLAYER at 20. If the Raps can move that pick for a player that can help you win games, you do that in a HEARTBEAT.

People needs to stop overvaluing this pick.

Unless you assume the Raptors will never, ever get lucky in the draft (and based on past history I couldn't exactly blame you) I don't think "best case scenario" is the term you're describing. Semantics but, still.

I do think it's that it's gotten close to a point where drafts picks are overvalued. But I think that the next couple seasons they arguably have more actual value than ever - due to the salary cap jump and the current rookie contracts staying the same. If you find a gem in the draft you have a relatively super-cheap asset and can spend more on your other roster spots - of which you only really have to find 7-8 players who can produce.

Though you could argue otherwise - that each team having way more money to spend means no one is going to be short on disposable income. Even if a ton of players set themselves up for new contracts when the cap jumps, it likely may not be enough to fill all of the available cap space.



_________________________________________

Another crazy thought...what if no one declares for the 2016 NBA draft. Ok "no one" is extreme, but if you're confident you're getting picked and it's assumed that in the newly negotiated CBA after 2016-2017 season will have a much more lucrative rookie salary structure - waiting a year could net you a 30-40% raise. (numbers half-pulled out of ass and half-based on salary cap jump from this season, $63M, to a projected $88M in 2016-17).

Then again, I know the NBPA doesn't want to artificially increase the cap to smooth out the upcoming spike, but maybe they'll argue for a retroactive pay increase in the rookie contract structure. Or maybe the NBPA doesn't want rookie contracts anymore, or they'll be shorter, or based on a % of the cap instead of flat #'s.

Who knows what changes the new CBA will have. These are crazy times my friends.

[thead]

People needs to stop overvaluing this pick.

If people have 1 of the 3 following opinions they are valueing it correctly

1.) We can can gamble on high upside but raw prospect and stash him the D-League

2.) We can get a guy that can contribute one or two very specific skill sets 3 and D, D and Rebound etc...for a locked in minimum, which as the cap rises becomes even more valuable.

3.) we can combine it with a future pick or player to move up to the 5 to 12 range.



I think that is the VALUE of this pick

[j_val_for_mayor]

You obviously don't follow the draft closely cause his projected to be a first round pick

ing out of anyone
Spent the last 20min doing some research on the guy and I gotta give it to you, he's not bad. Surprised by his work in transition.

His game tapes looked a lot like that of Dorrel Wright. He's a solid player that could be a wing off the bench but could just not be good enough to crack a roster. I can't see his ceiling as being anything above what Wright currently is. I think he'd be a San Antonio type of pick cause they can make something out of anything they get. But for the raptors, no thank you. He's nothing Deandre Daniels cant turn into but with better athleticism. He's a second rounder in my eyes. We'll see on draft night.

[MACK11]

6'9" with a 7'3" Winspan, and a very good rebounder with a promising outside shot. If he's there at 20 we gotta take him. Also for anyone thinking he's not big enough for the PF position, his standing reach is longer than Anthony Davis' and the same as Drummonds

[mcHAPPY]

Richaun Holmes is another guy I'd be interested in. DraftExpress has him at 46:

Despite the strong strides Holmes has made over the years on the offensive end, his biggest impact is on the defensive end, where he earned the MAC Defensive Player of the Year award this past season. Standing 6‘10“ with a 7‘1.5“ wingspan and a 9' standing reach, combined with a 34“ no-step vertical, as measured at the Portsmouth Invitational Tournament earlier this month, Holmes has the physical tools needed to make a significant impact defensively.

His length, explosiveness, and quickness off his feet, combined with good instincts and timing as a shot blocker, allowed Holmes to block 3.8 blocks per 40 minutes pace adjusted, tied for the 4th best figure in our database and just below the 4.2 per 40 minutes pace adjusted that Karl-Anthony Towns posted. The level of competition in the MAC, combined with a weak non-conference schedule, has to be factored in here, but Holmes has the physical tools, effort level, and instincts to make an impact on this side of the court.

Holmes other major area of contribution is on the defensive glass, hauling in 7.4 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted, pretty easily the best number in his Bowling Green career. That's once again an above average number for big men in the top-100 in our database. Holmes uses his length well on the defensive glass, doing a good job of boxing out and grabbing the ball at its highest point. He could stand to add more lower body strength, as he can be moved off his spot at times, something that also shows up in his otherwise strong post defense.

Despite transferring to Bowling Green after his freshman season, Richaun Holmes is still extremely young for his class, as he does not turn 22 until October, making him one of the youngest seniors in our rankings. His relative youth, combined with his incredible physical profile and the improvements he has shown over the last two seasons suggest there may be a great deal of growth potential left before he reaches his ultimate upside.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...-Holmes-65912/

Will be interesting if he is in for a workout on the 23rd.

[Letter N]

Another crazy thought...what if no one declares for the 2016 NBA draft. Ok "no one" is extreme, but if you're confident you're getting picked and it's assumed that in the newly negotiated CBA after 2016-2017 season will have a much more lucrative rookie salary structure - waiting a year could net you a 30-40% raise. (numbers half-pulled out of ass and half-based on salary cap jump from this season, $63M, to a projected $88M in 2016-17).

Can't see this happening. NBA players pull this shit because they're already sitting on millions. Not too many college kids are living a comfortable enough life, and are cocky enough about their skills to pull some shit like that. I could see one or two doing this, but it's the ones that opt to play in Europe or China, not the ones going to Duke.

[BobLoblaw]

I wouldn't bet on a big rookie scale increase. Who's going to stand up for college kids during CBA negotiations? Teams want rookie salaries low, and college kids aren't members of the NBA players' association.

The association might add a rookie scale raise to their list of demands, in part for PR purposes, but ultimately what do they care? Actually, if rookies get paid little, that means that there's more money left to current members of the association. They might add a rookie scale raise to their list of demands just for PR purposes. But it would be one of those demands that they would gladly drop during negotiations and say "well, we couldn't get everything."

[Cody73]

So.... I see no insterest in Diez at all guys?

[FromDeep]

Richaun Holmes is another guy I'd be interested in. DraftExpress has him at 46:




Will be interesting if he is in for a workout on the 23rd.

probably my favourite sleeper.

[BreakingBradStevens]

Video of how good RHJ is at defense:

http://youtu.be/LNWPLM8vo4A

[Shantz]

HPBasketball (Matt Moore) put out these two tweets today in reference to Aaron Gordon:

@HPbasketball: It’s weird that we assume that to play positions you MUST be able to certain things.

@HPbasketball: If 4’s are going to be shooters and playmakers, why do 3’s have to be shooters and playmakers?

I immediately thought of Rondae Hollis-Jefferson. If he had a capable jumpshot he would be towards tomhe top of the draft, and this because small forwards are supposed to be shooters.

Even if he tops out near a Kidd-Gilchrist offensively, that's still a heck of a player at 20 due to his defensive potential. Charlottes problem isn't necessarily MKG's lack of shooting, it could also be viewed as a lack of shooting around him.

Granted, Toronto isn't chock full of exceptional shooters either (although Pat-Pat stretching from the four helps a little), buts also done think that we are a good enough team to draft based on fit with any particular player on the roster.

For example, saying we need a shooter at SF because of DeMar's lack of range. We could make this decision to simply see him leave next offseason.

I still believe that if RHJ can rebuild his shot (by all accounts he is a hard worker and is already putting in the time on this area of his game) to a functional level then whoever picks him could have a scary player on their hands. Even if he doesn't though, you still walk away with a player who can contribute with specific skills.

High ceiling, high floor.