Everything Christian Koloko

[LJ2]

I think Nurse issue is he doesn't trust many guys outside his top 3. Yea he goes 8 or 9 deep but those 8th and 9th guys sometimes just get 5 minutes. And he will always want one his top guy usually fred lately or Pascal on the court at all times. It doesn't help now that FVV is the only real guard, was hoping we would get a vet backup PG to spell some of his minutes.

we basically played the playoffs without fred cause he was grinded into the ground and banged up. That probably is a 50/50 share of blame to Nick and fred who wants to pkay through injuries, but we didn't have him when we really needed him and I think it's a fair criticism.

This year we just have to hope Nick let's Scottie run the team more with 2nd units and get Fred's minutes down.

I was really hoping they would find a vet guard to back up Fred this season as well and am kind of surprised it wasn't more of a priority. I guess they are all on board Scottie moving into that role more this season sort of like how Cade does for Detroit.

[TrueTorontoFan]

I think Nurse issue is he doesn't trust many guys outside his top 3. Yea he goes 8 or 9 deep but those 8th and 9th guys sometimes just get 5 minutes. And he will always want one his top guy usually fred lately or Pascal on the court at all times. It doesn't help now that FVV is the only real guard, was hoping we would get a vet backup PG to spell some of his minutes.

we basically played the playoffs without fred cause he was grinded into the ground and banged up. That probably is a 50/50 share of blame to Nick and fred who wants to pkay through injuries, but we didn't have him when we really needed him and I think it's a fair criticism.

This year we just have to hope Nick let's Scottie run the team more with 2nd units and get Fred's minutes down.

you could even go a bit further and say top 4 now

[bertarapsfan]

I think Nurse issue is he doesn't trust many guys outside his top 3. Yea he goes 8 or 9 deep but those 8th and 9th guys sometimes just get 5 minutes. And he will always want one his top guy usually fred lately or Pascal on the court at all times. It doesn't help now that FVV is the only real guard, was hoping we would get a vet backup PG to spell some of his minutes.

we basically played the playoffs without fred cause he was grinded into the ground and banged up. That probably is a 50/50 share of blame to Nick and fred who wants to pkay through injuries, but we didn't have him when we really needed him and I think it's a fair criticism.

This year we just have to hope Nick let's Scottie run the team more with 2nd units and get Fred's minutes down.

[DanH]

Nope... we're still not connecting.

I'm saying that: Nurse plays his guys more than other top coaches (with similar or less depth), who develop their depth better than him.

Hope that's clear.

Right, just not really all that relevant, right?

The problem isn't whether Nurse plays his guys more than other coaches. If other coaches played their best guys 1 MPG, would you be upset at 2 MPG? No, that's silly.

The problem is the 38 MPG stuff. If Nurse is playing guys a reasonable amount, regardless of what other coaches are doing, that's just great. And when he's had playable depth he's done exactly that, and when he hasn't, he's played his key guys too much.

This all started with you saying that minutes aren't readily available here because the stars play 40 MPG. If guys can play, they sure are. And Nick gives guys leash to find out early in seasons - Scottie could swim so he got literally record setting minutes (in recent memory) for a rookie. Dalano sank so he ended up out of the rotation - after getting 10-20 minutes in 18 of the first 25 games. Precious got the starting nod early on then barely got spot starts in the new year, though his minutes did come way back up as he earned them. Even Malachi... he got spot minutes early in the season and was awful, but still, between game 19 and game 31, got into 10 games, averaged 14 minutes - and was awful, so ended up buried. Though he even got a second shot at it February to March where he played 9 of 10 games before getting injured, and averaged 23 minutes and was playing very well.

Nick throws guys out there. They just have to not suck to stay out there. When we have useful depth, he uses it. And generally uses his key players to help shield those support guys from roles too big for them, which is why they tend to trend high in minutes. And so long as those minutes don't get ridiculous, that's a good thing, IMO. It's up to the front office to make sure the guys Nick has to throw out there are halfway decent - I think this year we'll see a better bench crew and a more reasonable minutes load. If Malachi can pick up where he left off late last year, or Banton can add a three like he showed in the G-League, and Boucher can maintain his second half success, with the additions of Thad late last year and Otto this summer, there's no excuse for Nick to be running guys so hard. If he again has guys up at 40 MPG with those bench guys healthy and available, the critique will be valid in terms of a concern going forward and not just as an unfortunate side effect of a poor bench.

[golden]

It seems like you are saying the same thing I am. Nurse plays his guys too much when the depth isn't there, but it's not really an issue when the depth is there.

Nope... we're still not connecting.

I'm saying that: Nurse plays his guys more than other top coaches (with similar or less depth), who develop their depth better than him.

Hope that's clear.

[DanH]

No we're not on the same page. Other teams have similar and worse depth issues as the Raptors... but they don't overplay their guys. Nurse is on the high end of the Thibs scale, and blowing right past Thibs last season. Good coaches, like Spo & Malone, develop their end-of-bench guys into depth pieces to soak up minutes, i.e., the type of guys who would be out of Nurse's rotation (aka... complete disaster depth).

I mean, the Nuggets had horrific luck with injuries to 2 major minutes guys last season. Malone could have easily over-played Jokic to win more games and nobody would have faulted him. But he didn't (only 33.5 MPG). When Austin Rivers, Monte Morris and old man Jeff Green are in your top 6 MPG... that's the real definition of a depth disaster.

Nurse is Thibs 2.0. There's no denying it.

It seems like you are saying the same thing I am. Nurse plays his guys too much when the depth isn't there, but it's not really an issue when the depth is there.

[golden]

OK, so we're all on the same page. When the depth is a complete disaster, for whatever reason, Nurse has overplayed his guys. In years where it is not, they tend to play more reasonable minutes. I have no issue with playing your best players about 36 a night, that's about right.

No we're not on the same page. Other teams have similar and worse depth issues as the Raptors... but they don't overplay their guys. Nurse is on the high end of the Thibs scale, and blowing right past Thibs last season. Good coaches, like Spo & Malone, develop their end-of-bench guys into depth pieces to soak up minutes, i.e., the type of guys who would be out of Nurse's rotation (aka... complete disaster depth).

I mean, the Nuggets had horrific luck with injuries to 2 major minutes guys last season. Malone could have easily over-played Jokic to win more games and nobody would have faulted him. But he didn't (only 33.5 MPG). When Austin Rivers, Monte Morris and old man Jeff Green are in your top 6 MPG... that's the real definition of a depth disaster.

Nurse is Thibs 2.0. There's no denying it.

[DanH]

Even the Tampa tank year, Fred was #2 and Pascal was 8th in MPG. No coach, other than Nurse, is approaching 38 MPG recently. It’s not like 29 other teams all have huge depth. Riding his starters is clearly a Nurse thing, relative to his peers. And hopefully that bad habit peaked last season. Every coach could do that to win more games but the elite coaches, like Spo, can develop depth and win at the same time without burning out their starters.

OK, so we're all on the same page. When the depth is a complete disaster, for whatever reason, Nurse has overplayed his guys. In years where it is not, they tend to play more reasonable minutes. I have no issue with playing your best players about 36 a night, that's about right.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Even the Tampa tank year, Fred was #2 and Pascal was 8th in MPG. No coach, other than Nurse, is approaching 38 MPG recently. It’s not like 29 other teams all have huge depth. Riding his starters is clearly a Nurse thing, relative to his peers. And hopefully that bad habit peaked last season. Every coach could do that to win more games but the elite coaches, like Spo, can develop depth and win at the same time without burning out their starters.

he plays them more when we suck to catch up


spo had a better top line overall and had guys who know how to pace themselves.

[golden]

They all played a fairly reasonable 35-36 MPG. If they do that going forward I'm perfectly happy. It's this 38 MPG stuff that is a little silly.

Even the Tampa tank year, Fred was #2 and Pascal was 8th in MPG. No coach, other than Nurse, is approaching 38 MPG recently. It’s not like 29 other teams all have huge depth. Riding his starters is clearly a Nurse thing, relative to his peers. And hopefully that bad habit peaked last season. Every coach could do that to win more games but the elite coaches, like Spo, can develop depth and win at the same time without burning out their starters.

[DanH]

2019-20 is a great example. Lowry was 4th in MPG, Fred was 8th and Pascal was 11th. That was when we started to see the Thibs side of Nurse truly blossom. Exactly the opposite of silly, IMO.

They all played a fairly reasonable 35-36 MPG. If they do that going forward I'm perfectly happy. It's this 38 MPG stuff that is a little silly.

[golden]

So what you are saying is when they have real depth, they use it?

The 2020 point there is silly, you can still look at the minutes distribution from the pre-COVID part of the season, they didn't know there was a 6 month break coming...

2019-20 is a great example. Lowry was 4th in MPG, Fred was 8th and Pascal was 11th. That was when we started to see the Thibs side of Nurse truly blossom. Exactly the opposite of silly, IMO.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Those are indeed my expectations. I was just explaining what I want.

precisely

[Puffer]

It would be easier for him if everyone had expectations of a 2nd rounder spending most of the season in the G League and see what he turns into.

Those are indeed my expectations. I was just explaining what I want.

[DanH]

2019 they had an insanely deep team. 2020 they had a 6 month break so everybody could heal up, refresh and play in the bubble.

That pre-bubble break was a big reason why Lebron and AD were healthy enough at the end to win it all. (*asterisk championship.)

So what you are saying is when they have real depth, they use it?

The 2020 point there is silly, you can still look at the minutes distribution from the pre-COVID part of the season, they didn't know there was a 6 month break coming...