The Raptors and KD. Let's discuss.

[DanH]

My apologies Dan (re salary cap). That was NOT attempt. Considering we are near cap (& Nets way over), I thought we'd have to send out "closer" to $44 mil. Stand corrected.
Can your above team take East? We'd need to beat at least 2 of Bos, Mil, 76ers, Miami. Doable? Certainly? Favs? still not convinced.
We were pretty thin in "depth department" last year. In above scenario: KD, OPJ in, Barnes, Trent out. Still thin. Can we afford for starters to play heavy minutes again? Not a good formula for deep playoff success (in playoffs yes, but nor regular season).
GS (aka champs) -any reason why not as strong next year? Thompson, closer to 100%; Young guns (Kuminga, Weisman, Moody) 1 year of experience & potential to get another star (Mitchell?). IMO, still favs to win it all.
Im (sort of) with you on Clippers. On paper (yet again) No 1. Health? Who knows? Very deep. Can afford to manage time.
Lets hope, all this is moot point. Id hate to give up Barnes (even in above scenario with Trent & maybe 2 FRPs AT MOST) and I doubt Nets would consider it.
In the end, frankly not a fan of getting 34 yo KD, esp with his injuries last few years. With him making $50 mil at age 36 & 37. Ouch. Why not keep that money & spread for FVV, Trent, OG, Siakam & Barnes extensions over that time?

The depth is already way better with Boucher having found his game and Thad added near the end of the year and still with the team. Having 8 actual rotation players is wildly different from having 6 actual rotation players.

[chris]

But is the 4 years contract of Durant a positive or a negative?! I highly doubt the last two years of being 36 and 37 years old while paying Durant 50 million per year will be worth it. Its the first 2 years that matters the most.

it's a fair question but i would expect two years at a very high level and two more years at a fairly high (albeit probably overpaid) level would still have more value than an expiring contract

[Limited Upside]

At this point, just offer OG and Trent and picks up to, at the latest, 2026, when Durant would be leaving anyway. Who’s topping that offer, and if they did, would Masai care? The market will dictate this one at the end of the day, and right now that market is… not good for Tsai and Marks. They seem to be playing the same game Masai did with Melo back in the day. Which is not a bad plan and may work out for them, but I wouldn’t count on Toronto playing the NYK role… Masai just ain’t that dumb.

I still say Durant plays in Brooklyn this year.

[chris]

At this point, just offer OG and Trent and picks up to, at the latest, 2026, when Durant would be leaving anyway. Who’s topping that offer, and if they did, would Masai care? The market will dictate this one at the end of the day, and right now that market is… not good for Tsai and Marks. They seem to be playing the same game Masai did with Melo back in the day. Which is not a bad plan and may work out for them, but I wouldn’t count on Toronto playing the NYK role… Masai just ain’t that dumb.

I still say Durant plays in Brooklyn this year.

yeah that's how i expect it's playing out, and brooklyn isn't dumb enough to take that deal either hence his likelihood to still be in brooklyn next year.

[TrueTorontoFan]

it's a fair question but i would expect two years at a very high level and two more years at a fairly high (albeit probably overpaid) level would still have more value than an expiring contract

as long as you load manage him that is a fair expectation

[TrueTorontoFan]

At this point, just offer OG and Trent and picks up to, at the latest, 2026, when Durant would be leaving anyway. Who’s topping that offer, and if they did, would Masai care? The market will dictate this one at the end of the day, and right now that market is… not good for Tsai and Marks. They seem to be playing the same game Masai did with Melo back in the day. Which is not a bad plan and may work out for them, but I wouldn’t count on Toronto playing the NYK role… Masai just ain’t that dumb.

I still say Durant plays in Brooklyn this year.

the issue is offering too many picks you risk not having secondary moves to make so you would have to internally be 100% certain that everyone is bought in and willing to make it work even in terms of salary sacrifice if necessary for 3 years. You would have to be fairly certain that THAT move would guarantee you a chip possibly two

[Primer]

Well I think that is where I can see us saying OK you can have these two but only two picks but not the 2023 pick.


Fred is a UFA but he will take the money if the extension is offered. You can turn GTJ into something if you must or keep hhim. Pascal should be at the SF and Durant at the Powerforward... the three of barnes siakam and Durant are all interchangeable.
so its either they get additional picks and take FVV and Trent or if you include OG and Fred nothing else.

You would definitely want to include to 2023 pick. We'd be title favorites it won't be a good pick. If we did 2 picks you do 2023 and 2025, make sure they are years KD is here so they're bad picks. That way if we need to reset when KD is done we have all our picks. 2 picks and 2 pick swaps in 2024 and 2026 works fine since we'd be very unlikely to swap those years.

[GOLDBLUM]

the issue is offering too many picks you risk not having secondary moves to make so you would have to internally be 100% certain that everyone is bought in and willing to make it work even in terms of salary sacrifice if necessary for 3 years. You would have to be fairly certain that THAT move would guarantee you a chip possibly two

Not sure what you're talking about/expecting in terms of "salary sacrifice" but under no circumstances would I imagine that happening. It's not a hard cap, remember, so presumably the franchise would take that as the clear moment to push the chips in, go over the cap and pay whatever they can (within reason) to retain who they need. (aka, winning time.)

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not sure what you're talking about/expecting in terms of "salary sacrifice" but under no circumstances would I imagine that happening. It's not a hard cap, remember, so presumably the franchise would take that as the clear moment to push the chips in, go over the cap and pay whatever they can (within reason) to retain who they need. (aka, winning time.)

for example if siakam doesn't get extended and wins all nba again... do you give him a beal level super max... or would he settle for a max?

[Puffer]

You would definitely want to include to 2023 pick. We'd be title favorites it won't be a good pick. If we did 2 picks you do 2023 and 2025, make sure they are years KD is here so they're bad picks. That way if we need to reset when KD is done we have all our picks. 2 picks and 2 pick swaps in 2024 and 2026 works fine since we'd be very unlikely to swap those years.

Not to mention any picks you acquire when you trade KD to another team.

[DanH]

You would definitely want to include to 2023 pick. We'd be title favorites it won't be a good pick. If we did 2 picks you do 2023 and 2025, make sure they are years KD is here so they're bad picks. That way if we need to reset when KD is done we have all our picks. 2 picks and 2 pick swaps in 2024 and 2026 works fine since we'd be very unlikely to swap those years.

I suspect the Nets would insist on at least one post-KD pick. That's the only real pick value in the deal. So 2027 is the starting point.

I also suspect the only way the offer is under consideration is if you go to 6 years of pick control - so 2023, 2025, 2027 picks (unprotected) and 2024, 2026, 2028 swap rights. Swaps are less risky as at least there's a pick still there if you have to swap out, and with Scottie still here you can bet we won't be bottoming out entirely.

The negotiation would be whether that final 2029 pick is included, and if so what protections it has.

Personally if the rest of the deal looks how they want (like, whoever the Raptors would prefer to send of Fred or OG, plus Trent, and the rest is filler you don't want and you are able to hold onto Precious, and maybe you get back another rotation piece alongside KD like a Harris or Curry), I'd just be sending the whole pick package. You are making a win-now bet, better to maximize that bet at the cost of future picks, since your foundation in Scottie is already intact.

[Primer]

I suspect the Nets would insist on at least one post-KD pick. That's the only real pick value in the deal. So 2027 is the starting point.

I also suspect the only way the offer is under consideration is if you go to 6 years of pick control - so 2023, 2025, 2027 picks (unprotected) and 2024, 2026, 2028 swap rights. Swaps are less risky as at least there's a pick still there if you have to swap out, and with Scottie still here you can bet we won't be bottoming out entirely.

The negotiation would be whether that final 2029 pick is included, and if so what protections it has.

Personally if the rest of the deal looks how they want (like, whoever the Raptors would prefer to send of Fred or OG, plus Trent, and the rest is filler you don't want and you are able to hold onto Precious, and maybe you get back another rotation piece alongside KD like a Harris or Curry), I'd just be sending the whole pick package. You are making a win-now bet, better to maximize that bet at the cost of future picks, since your foundation in Scottie is already intact.

Yep, full agreement here. The best thing for us to send out in a KD trade is picks and swaps because those don't hurt our chances of winning the NBA title while KD is here. Max those out and minimize the value of outgoing players and we're in great shape.

Nets are demanding excellent players and all the picks and that's just not gonna happen because it defeats the whole purpose of trading for KD.

Trent + OG + picks and swaps is definitely the best situation for us. It's also a pretty damn good fit for the Nets as OG and Trent would go well with Simmons since both can shoot. OG and Simmons would be a nightmare on defense together. The Nets are too worried aboit public perception and not worried enough about basketball. If they keep Irving too that's a playoff team for sure.

Irving
Trent
Simmons
OG
Claxton

That's a pretty damn solid starting 5.

[TrueTorontoFan]

Not to mention any picks you acquire when you trade KD to another team.

if you get him you get him to make it work for 3 years

you aren't recouping a ton from a 37 year old guy

[Hotshot]

Yep, full agreement here. The best thing for us to send out in a KD trade is picks and swaps because those don't hurt our chances of winning the NBA title while KD is here. Max those out and minimize the value of outgoing players and we're in great shape.

Nets are demanding excellent players and all the picks and that's just not gonna happen because it defeats the whole purpose of trading for KD.

Trent + OG + picks and swaps is definitely the best situation for us. It's also a pretty damn good fit for the Nets as OG and Trent would go well with Simmons since both can shoot. OG and Simmons would be a nightmare on defense together. The Nets are too worried aboit public perception and not worried enough about basketball. If they keep Irving too that's a playoff team for sure.

Irving
Trent
Simmons
OG
Claxton

That's a pretty damn solid starting 5.

That James Harden trade really messed up Brooklyn future. But they were banking it would all work out and now they are trying to get something greater for KD that would fix all those picks going to Houston & Cleveland (3 first round picks and 4 first rounds pick swaps).

If they never traded Jarret Allen, you replace him with Claxton (in the above example) and that is a solid starting 5 you can get anywhere in the league. This is why if they also ask for Precious in the deal you tell them no because they didn't really know what they had with Allen until he went to the Cavs and that is what could also happen with Precious.

[bertarapsfan]

That James Harden trade really messed up Brooklyn future. But they were banking it would all work out and now they are trying to get something greater for KD that would fix all those picks going to Houston & Cleveland (3 first round picks and 4 first rounds pick swaps).

If they never traded Jarret Allen, you replace him with Claxton (in the above example) and that is a solid starting 5 you can get anywhere in the league. This is why if they also ask for Precious in the deal you tell them no because they didn't really know what they had with Allen until he went to the Cavs and that is what could also happen with Precious.

The whole reason that they had to move Allen was KD and kyrie made them sign deandre Jordan and then pouted when Allen was getting minutes over him. They basically were forced to deal a good arrest cause they gave control of team making decisions to 2 fickle prima Donna stars. They gave up on a guy who has been an all star now and will probably be on the verge of making the team a couple more times in his career, cause of KD and kyrie. Something smart executives like masai should be taking into account when thinking about a deal. You gonna let KD come to your team and force you to pay and play one of his old washed up buddies over a young guy who needs reps to break out?