What happened to our defence from last year to this year ?

[consmap]

I'm going to make a comparison.

Think of Mike D'Antoni and his offensive system. In order for it to work he needed Steve Nash in his prime running the offense and a collection of sharpshooters that could play off of him.

With Casey, his defensive system was at its peak with guys like Chandler roaming the paint and Marion hanging around the perimeter.

When both of these coaches left the teams that defined their successes and were forced to work with different personnel, they faltered. So yes, maybe the GM has to do a better job of finding the right talent for the system, but at the same time the fact that these coaches' teams are/were playing VERY poorly and can barely get their schemes to work at all is a huge red flag. If you absolutely need elite talent to get your system to function in a somewhat proper way then that's a huge problem.

[yabadabayolo]

So very strong resume is an isolated 6-game sample? Where his scramble heavy D worked against a team with no interior threat, no big man that likes to roll, and no good shooters around LeBron...Oh, and they also played a lot of soft zone, which gave the Heat tons of trouble and which he's barely used in his time in Toronto (maybe it was Carlisle's idea).

You say people better have more than claims. But twice you've claimed he has a very strong defensive resume, and the only thing you can really point to is a single series that happened to be for the championship.

You can't judge Casey off his teams defensive numbers when he was an ASSISTANT coach. That's like blaming our shit defence on sterner.

I think the reason mcrealistic says Casey has a proven record as a defensive coach is because Carlyle literally said the defence was all Casey's idea and he implemented it. So if you think about it, it kinda means his defensive system is a championship level system. Thus mcrealistics claims.

[2kfeen]

Casey had a lot of good defensive pieces that year when they won the championship

Deshawn Stevenson, Marion and Chandler were great defenders
Jason Kidd would also give opposing players some fits
Ian Mahinimi was a good backup C if i remember correctly

It would have been really hard to suck at defense when your gifted a roster like that. Casey's defense wasnt ground breaking or anything, his roster did most of the work for him

However, I think he should go b.c he hasnt adjusted his systems based on the roster

Our offense can be really stagnant at times, and heavily relies on isos. this is not playoff caliber basketball

The problem is our defense, which can easily be exposed. JV is not a mobile C that can hedge and guard like Amir can. He's a natural 7 footer, and our scramble system will expose his shortcomings.

The blame is not so much on the players (when DD goes 3-14 games, or when guards torch us), but more on the coach who preaches this system

If we keep this up, any coach will go P&R for days, and destroy us

[yabadabayolo]

Oh...and welcome back jamshid.

wtf bro...

Way it make things personal. Just because he doesn't agree with you doesn't mean he's a troll smh

[Mindlessness]

The bold doesn't really make sense. They didn't make the playoffs and get a bye straight to the finals and only play 6 games to win a championship. You have to play 4 series, minimum 16 games, max 28 games, to prove you have a strong enough defense to win you a championship.

The Raptors aren't getting 1 shot (1 series) to win a championship, they'd have to be good enough to get past 4 teams. We can already tell that our bad defense may not even get us past 1 round. Casey's defense had to have been good enough that year with Dallas to win them a championship.

One year, amazing. Great, why hasn't this so-called "top defensive system" result in multiple top 10 DRTG finishes? Like, if he's an amazing defensive coach, surely his teams would finish consistently in the top 10 defensively right?

Here's a list of teams that have done so under his coaching:

2013-14 Toronto Raptors (10th)
10-11 Mavs (8th)
05-06 Wolves (9th)
97-98 Sonics (10th)
96-97 Sonics (6th)
95-96 Sonics (2nd)
94-95 Sonics (10th)

So 7 teams... Out of a possible 20 (incl. this year). I won't ever say that's the mark of some defense guru. On top of all that, the Sonics weren't much more special with Casey than without, as they finished 3rd and 2nd the years prior to his hiring. Something somthing Gary Payton something defense something something god.

[yabadabayolo]

Well...it's always a bit of both, but Casey doesn't even utilize the players he has that WOULD fit his system, like James Johnson. Johnson could easily play a similar role to Marion did in Dallas. .

Though he would help, James johnson can't take you from 25th in defence to 5th. Defence is a team thing not an individual thing.

[yabadabayolo]

One year, amazing. Great, why hasn't this so-called "top defensive system" result in multiple top 10 DRTG finishes? Like, if he's an amazing defensive coach, surely his teams would finish consistently in the top 10 defensively right?

Here's a list of teams that have done so under his coaching:

2013-14 Toronto Raptors (10th)
10-11 Mavs (8th)
05-06 Wolves (9th)
97-98 Sonics (10th)
96-97 Sonics (6th)
95-96 Sonics (2nd)
94-95 Sonics (10th)

So 7 teams... Out of a possible 20 (incl. this year). I won't ever say that's the mark of some defense guru. On top of all that, the Sonics weren't much more special with Casey than without, as they finished 3rd and 2nd the years prior to his hiring. Something somthing Gary Payton something defense something something god.

You can't judge him on his defence when he was an assistant ! That's like saying sterner is a garbage defensive coach cuz we suck this year !

He's been top 10 defence 2 out of the 5 years he's actually HEAD coached. And vastly improved from the year prior to hi taking over In 1 of the other 3 years. So he's only really been shit at defence 2 of his 5 years of head coaching

[white men can't jump]

The bold doesn't really make sense. They didn't make the playoffs and get a bye straight to the finals and only play 6 games to win a championship. You have to play 4 series, minimum 16 games, max 28 games, to prove you have a strong enough defense to win you a championship.

The Raptors aren't getting 1 shot (1 series) to win a championship, they'd have to be good enough to get past 4 teams. We can already tell that our bad defense may not even get us past 1 round. Casey's defense had to have been good enough that year with Dallas to win them a championship.

I just meant that nobody talked about how stellar their D is (good sure, compared to some of their other years under Dirk, but not like it was elite). It didn't become a story until they beat Miami. And that was with some ideal pieces for his system.

Not to mention that Casey somehow gets all the credit for that even though Carlisle, a very good defensive coach and much better head coach, was leading the team. And on top of that, Stotts, another coach from the same team, took the same defensive principles to Portland, then saw he had to change them due to personnel, and they became better.

[Mindlessness]

You can't judge him on his defence when he was an assistant ! That's like saying sterner is a garbage defensive coach cuz we suck this year !

He's been top 10 defence 2 out of the 5 years he's actually HEAD coached. And vastly improved from the year prior to hi taking over In 1 of the other 3 years. So he's only really been shit at defence 2 of his 5 years of head coaching

Except it's never been said Sterner's worked on the defense here under Casey, whereas Carlisle himself has said Casey was responsible for the defense in Dallas.

[white men can't jump]

You can't judge him on his defence when he was an assistant ! That's like saying sterner is a garbage defensive coach cuz we suck this year !

He's been top 10 defence 2 out of the 5 years he's actually HEAD coached. And vastly improved from the year prior to hi taking over In 1 of the other 3 years. So he's only really been shit at defence 2 of his 5 years of head coaching

But if you can't judge his assistant years, that actually takes away most of the best defensive teams he's worked for. And we don't really have other evidence to base things on. And similarly if you can't look at those years, than you can't give him full credit for the winning year in Dallas, especially since he was working under a coach who's much better than him. *Yes, Carlisle himself even gave Casey credit, but do you think he never tweaked anything if he saw the need to? He was still shepherding the team.

[white men can't jump]

Though he would help, James johnson can't take you from 25th in defence to 5th. Defence is a team thing not an individual thing.

Funny you say that, because our D was much better when JJ started and played decent minutes. It's not an individual thing, but it still depends on the coming together of individuals, and so the better the defensive players you have the better the collective result is likely to be.

[yabadabayolo]

Except it's never been said Sterner's worked on the defense here under Casey, whereas Carlisle himself has said Casey was responsible for the defense in Dallas.

Which was a good defence and won the championship. Fine add that to the list. And unless you can get proof that the other head coaches for when he assistant coached said the same. Same judge ping him based in it.

That makes 3* good defenses in 6 seasons.

*(The two he was top 10 in and his first season where the raps improved durasticAlly with him taking over)

[Mindlessness]

Which was a good defence and won the championship. Fine add that to the list. And unless you can get proof that the other head coaches for when he assistant coached said the same. Same judge ping him based in it.

That makes 3 good defenses in 6 seasons.

3 in 8. He coached in Dallas for three years.

[yabadabayolo]

But if you can't judge his assistant years, that actually takes away most of the best defensive teams he's worked for. And we don't really have other evidence to base things on. And similarly if you can't look at those years, than you can't give him full credit for the winning year in Dallas, especially since he was working under a coach who's much better than him.

But but that specific year, Carlisle literally gave him all the credit for it. Even though he's 'much better than him'

But don't count it and he still had a good defence 3 out of the 5 years he's head coached. He's a defensive coach, don't know why your arguing with me over that

[yabadabayolo]

3 in 8. He coached in Dallas for three years.

Yes but did Carlisle give him credit for the defence in each of those three years ?

I was under the impression he just said that during the championship year