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  • S.R. wrote: View Post
    The real "problem" (if it ever comes to that) isn't that Carroll and Ross are ahead of him, it's that he really needs to be playing SG and DeMar's ahead of him. You can find a good amount of minutes for him at the 3 and backup 2, but if he maxes out his potential he should really be a starting SG.
    Yes and no....

    More and more the PG is resembling a SG.

    Its already known that the franchise wanted Norm to improve his ballhandling and passing skills. Although I can see the influence of DDs game on Norm, our franchise clearly understands where his actual opening maybe and if he can improve in those areas which given his focus to 3pt shooting and improvement in the facet, I dont see why he wont be able to make some progress their too if the staff is working on him to do that. BUT again the PG position is shifting to become far more scoring oriented and facilitators are coming from different positions like SF (LeBron, Giannis) to even PF (Draymond).

    We dont presently have more of a facilitating SF or PF but that doesnt mean we wont by the time Powell is ready to take the reigns from possibly Kyle. In 3-4 years, lets face it, Kyle will be near done. A new 20ppg scorer and leader will need to fill in. Norm already seems to have a bit of General/leader in him (you see it in the D-League or any time he is on 2nd unit without Kyle or DeMar). He just has that prescence and confidence about himself.

    To go back to the last post I just made....think of DeMar as 23 year old and how much better and refined he is now as a 27 year old....really think, remember when DD doing a spin move was his big thing?! Thats how basic he was. Its night and day. Now imagine if Norm is being taught certain things and molded a certain way in conjuction with the direction the league is going of the Scoring Point Guard. Norm is primed to both physically and timewise to step in and take that role.
    Last edited by JamesNaismith; Thu Dec 22nd, 2016, 12:20 AM.

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    • has anyone considered the possibility that demar could be the SF. every year he looks bigger and stronger and perhaps more capable of being the day to day guy for that position in a few years. doesn't that happen in this league, where often guys come in as a 2 guard but as they get older they often slot in as a SF. Isn't that what happened to Vince. I don't know, but if it's possible than maybe Norm can be our starting 2 between Kyle and Demar. He can still guard the quicker wing.

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      • JawsGT wrote: View Post
        has anyone considered the possibility that demar could be the SF. every year he looks bigger and stronger and perhaps more capable of being the day to day guy for that position in a few years. doesn't that happen in this league, where often guys come in as a 2 guard but as they get older they often slot in as a SF. Isn't that what happened to Vince. I don't know, but if it's possible than maybe Norm can be our starting 2 between Kyle and Demar. He can still guard the quicker wing.
        Its possible. Although he'd get demolished by Lebron, but then again, there are only a few players capable of defending him 1 on 1.

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        • JawsGT wrote: View Post
          has anyone considered the possibility that demar could be the SF. every year he looks bigger and stronger and perhaps more capable of being the day to day guy for that position in a few years. doesn't that happen in this league, where often guys come in as a 2 guard but as they get older they often slot in as a SF. Isn't that what happened to Vince. I don't know, but if it's possible than maybe Norm can be our starting 2 between Kyle and Demar. He can still guard the quicker wing.
          I guess it still comes down to-who guards the lebrons and pg13s? I mean it's not like carroll has been doing a better job than powell so I guess it could work
          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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          • Trade Ross and another asset and get a PF. Powell is ready NOW.

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            • JawsGT wrote: View Post
              has anyone considered the possibility that demar could be the SF. every year he looks bigger and stronger and perhaps more capable of being the day to day guy for that position in a few years. doesn't that happen in this league, where often guys come in as a 2 guard but as they get older they often slot in as a SF. Isn't that what happened to Vince. I don't know, but if it's possible than maybe Norm can be our starting 2 between Kyle and Demar. He can still guard the quicker wing.
              They're both better with the ball in their hands. Ross makes more sense imo. Norm needs to handle more in 2nd unit. Probably Casey wants some balance like siakam/pat roles and the size for demarre.

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              • A.I wrote: View Post
                Its possible. Although he'd get demolished by Lebron, but then again, there are only a few players capable of defending him 1 on 1.
                KeonClark wrote: View Post
                I guess it still comes down to-who guards the lebrons and pg13s? I mean it's not like carroll has been doing a better job than powell so I guess it could work
                I think Norm could do a decent job on George, melo and LBJ would be an issue though. But honestly, I think demar could do just as good a job on those guys as any of our other options. PnR D is where demar is weakest IMO.

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                • Really, the black sheep here is carroll. Either powell or ross should start, the other our 6th man and bench scorer. Figure out the whole SF guard thing by committee, cause carroll ain't some shutdown guy anyway. Problem being, he has the least trade value of the 3 by far, and let's face it, the franchise is forcing it because of the magnitude they've invested. The money is miniscule compared to the statement. He's the one of the only American born free agents with name recognition still in his prime with cache I can EVER remember us signing, let alone in the Ujiri era. They're obviously conscious of the fact they need to give it a longer effort to make him a big factor on the team, make him happy, and ideally, have him finish his contract here and have great things to say.

                  Problem is, it's a cold business, and it's bad asset management.
                  It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                  • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                    I think Norm could do a decent job on George, melo and LBJ would be an issue though. But honestly, I think demar could do just as good a job on those guys as any of our other options. PnR D is where demar is weakest IMO.
                    I could see a scenario where Demar could defend Carmelo in situations, as once Melo gets the ball, he's really looking to find his shot, rather than a teammate. Melo ranks 100th in the NBA in potential assists per game at 5.2 Demar ranks around 45th at 8.3 potential assists per game, and we know that, while he's shown a greater willingness to pass this season, he isn't likely to turn into an assist-generating machine.

                    Melo also ranks 241st in the NBA in the number of drives he does per game at 1.1. With only 1.4 of his touches per game coming in the paint, and only 1.8 of his 58.4 touches per game come in the post (12 feet or less from the basket), his game has seemingly become a back-down game starting from mid-range, or catch and shoot from mid-range to beyond the three point line. I think, that if Demar is focused, that he would be able to defend that game. Norm would have a definite size disadvantage as Melo could shoot face-up jumpers over Norm.

                    Demar trying to defend Lebron would be a nightmare. In every game this season, the Cavs have used side pick and rolls with Lebron against the Raptors centers (especially JV) with ease. Having a pick and roll defense against Lebron of Demar and JV would make Lebron's eyes light up, and also risks putting one or both in foul trouble, which will make the Raptors' offense sputter more when trying to mount a comeback.

                    Norm's lateral quickness advantage and physicality over Demar may encourage Lebron to shoot more often rather than drive and kick, which could work for periods of time if Lebron's shot isn't falling. The challenge with Lebron is that he will adapt his game to the approach of the person defending him, which is why teams try to rotate defenders on him.

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                    • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                      Really, the black sheep here is carroll. Either powell or ross should start, the other our 6th man and bench scorer. Figure out the whole SF guard thing by committee, cause carroll ain't some shutdown guy anyway. Problem being, he has the least trade value of the 3 by far, and let's face it, the franchise is forcing it because of the magnitude they've invested. The money is miniscule compared to the statement. He's the one of the only American born free agents with name recognition still in his prime with cache I can EVER remember us signing, let alone in the Ujiri era. They're obviously conscious of the fact they need to give it a longer effort to make him a big factor on the team, make him happy, and ideally, have him finish his contract here and have great things to say.

                      Problem is, it's a cold business, and it's bad asset management.
                      This Demarre Carroll is slowly returning to form week by week, he'll be back:


                      Norm is too small to be the primary defender against Lebron, Durant, Carmelo, etc. Much too small. You throw multiple defenders at those guys anyway, and Norm could have a go at them for a few minutes under those circumstances, but you really need someone with length/size as the primary defender. Ross couldn't even handle the task for a full game and Carroll himself is a bit undersized but is the Raptors' best bet. Ideally you'd have a James Johnson-type player, but....wait a minute.

                      The Raptors probably need to play a "stop everybody else and let LBJ get his" strategy vs. the Cavs, that guy could drop 35 on Toronto anytime he wants no matter who they put on him.
                      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                      • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                        Really, the black sheep here is carroll. Either powell or ross should start, the other our 6th man and bench scorer. Figure out the whole SF guard thing by committee, cause carroll ain't some shutdown guy anyway. Problem being, he has the least trade value of the 3 by far, and let's face it, the franchise is forcing it because of the magnitude they've invested. The money is miniscule compared to the statement. He's the one of the only American born free agents with name recognition still in his prime with cache I can EVER remember us signing, let alone in the Ujiri era. They're obviously conscious of the fact they need to give it a longer effort to make him a big factor on the team, make him happy, and ideally, have him finish his contract here and have great things to say.

                        Problem is, it's a cold business, and it's bad asset management.
                        That's an interesting if cynical theory.
                        Two beer away from being two beers away.

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                        • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                          I think Norm could do a decent job on George, melo and LBJ would be an issue though. But honestly, I think demar could do just as good a job on those guys as any of our other options. PnR D is where demar is weakest IMO.
                          Agreed. Powell did well against PG last year in the Playoffs. We have Patterson who is quick enough and tall enough to defend Melo, if DD can't. Lebron...No one can guard him other than Leonard and maybe PG.

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                          • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                            I think Norm could do a decent job on George, melo and LBJ would be an issue though. But honestly, I think demar could do just as good a job on those guys as any of our other options. PnR D is where demar is weakest IMO.
                            Understatement...I would say he almost shut him down.



                            ...least we forget this too

                            Last edited by JamesNaismith; Thu Dec 22nd, 2016, 05:04 PM.

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                            • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                              has anyone considered the possibility that demar could be the SF. every year he looks bigger and stronger and perhaps more capable of being the day to day guy for that position in a few years. doesn't that happen in this league, where often guys come in as a 2 guard but as they get older they often slot in as a SF. Isn't that what happened to Vince. I don't know, but if it's possible than maybe Norm can be our starting 2 between Kyle and Demar. He can still guard the quicker wing.
                              If I recall Vince played small forward as a rookie then improved his outside shout and ball handling but yes as he started losing his quickness he reverted to small forward as did Jordan in his Washington comeback

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                              • We will get the most out of Norman powells potential by playing him at point guard. It's not a 2/3 debate it's a 1/2 debate.

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