Has Casey finally learned?

[golden]

And the issue wasn't about him being able to sustain elite play - it was that he actually began to play badly.

On both sides of the court.

Lowry was also getting regularly torched on D by guys like DJ Augustin, Brandon Jennings and Jarrett Jack. I actually agree with Casey's assessment that the ISO offence caused the guards (Lou, DD, GV, Lowry) to conserve energy on defense, which set off a domino effect starting with lack of initial dribble penetration and compounded by the hyper-aggressive help defense (aka "scramble").

The offense & defense systems were a poor fit for each other, but Casey put the blame on personnel (like 90% Lou Williams was the root of all evil.)

[Axel]

Why would you only look at the December numbers, and not November as well?

Because BBallRef has ready made splits for each month separate and I didn't feel like doing additional math.

Plus if you want to discuss his best, that stretch was it,

[Wild-ling#1]

On both sides of the court.

Lowry was also getting regularly torched on D by guys like DJ Augustin, Brandon Jennings and Jarrett Jack. I actually agree with Casey's assessment that the ISO offence caused the guards (Lou, DD, GV, Lowry) to conserve energy on defense, which set off a domino effect starting with lack of initial dribble penetration and compounded by the hyper-aggressive help defense (aka "scramble").

The offense & defense systems were a poor fit for each other, but Casey put the blame on personnel (like 90% Lou Williams was the root of all evil.)

OK. But I remember reading a report at the end of last season, grading all teams (on NBA.com or maybe SI) that said that the Raptors have a very talented back-court, but that "Noone did more, with less, than the Toronto Raptors did last season." Which struck me.

And it seems there is a fair consensus here on RR that the Raptors do not have the talent, on paper, as it were, to match up with the truly elite teams in the NBA. And our best players were injured, sequentially, last season. After the Rudy Gay trade, and the surprise of how DeRozan and Lowry "stepped up", I thought it was clear that Masai was going to give the team last year to see ... well, whatever was to be seen. Lou was really only brought in, on a 1-year contract, because he was available and maybe under-valued ... but not so much because he was "the answer" ...

(And he wasn't.)

So. I don't quibble with the analysis over the intricacies of systems and the like. Sorry - "Above my pay-grade" just now (though I'm reading and learning, I think). But we still haven't made the elite-talent splash some think is necessary to truly contend.

So aren't we to hope that, essentially, exchanging Lou Williams for Demarre Carroll, pushing T-Ross back to a 6th man position (at the 2), with a healthy Kyle, with defensive back-up, and with some kind of incremental improvement from Demar and JV, along with better-suited assistants with improved systems (Dan's, say), and the experience of last-year's disappointment in mind, that we can still take a half-step this year ... from 2013-2014-15 ... and maybe enough to attract a FA or work some other "Masai-ah magic" for 2016?

Cautiously optimistic, That's where I sit. With Casey. For now. Is that necessarily "foolish"?

[Uncle_Si]

Guys, Lowry has a six pack now so, super heroes have six packs. Lowry is a super hero. Super heroes have to save the world. It takes time to save the world. Lowry is going to miss time due to his obligation to save the world.

Better off with that dad bod.

[distorsun]

He can POUND THE ROCK like's nobody's business. There's nobody better right now in the nba.
...
Now take that!

Hypothetical question, if we fire Casey, do we also fire his ROCK ?

I'm still wondering what he does well. Isn't great at managing games, isn't great at putting systems in place to maximize players strengths. There isn't much left to be good at.

[mcHAPPY]

He can POUND THE ROCK like's nobody's business. There's nobody better right now in the nba.
...
Now take that!

Hypothetical question, if we fire Casey, do we also fire his ROCK ?

Not sure if it is fired.

I mean it still has use.

No paper is going to get out from under it, thats for sure.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Impossible to miss the implication, though, CRF, that any and all fans who are reluctant to simply blame Casey for all of the Raps struggles are just "stupid/"fools".

You actually did miss my point entirely, which was openly stated, rather than implied - regardless of the opinion or the side of a debate they may fall on, fans aren't stupid of foolish. Simply writing off any fan's opinion just because they aren't an ex-NBA player, or an NBA coach, or an NBA analyst, expert or insider, is taking the easy way out of an argument. A lot of fans, especially those passionate enough to come to sites like RR to discuss basketball and the Raptors, can actually have intelligent thoughts and insights that shouldn't simply be dismissed because they're "just fans".

If I were to write-off posters with an opposing view, I'd be 100% hypocritical.

[LJ2]

Lowry's gotta want that All-Star birth ... and a better play-off showing. He's slimmed down. Hopefully he'll get "spelled" some, game-to-game ... But I don't see him changing his style of play ... So I hope it's sustainable ...

Lowry would have been fine last year if DD didn't go down with an injury. I think it will be the same this year if either guy goes down then the other will have to step it up beyond their ability to sustain through the season. Unless JV has gotten his game to that point where he can be leaned on night in and night out to carry a significant scoring burden that is the way it's gonna be.

[slaw]

OK. But I remember reading a report at the end of last season, grading all teams (on NBA.com or maybe SI) that said that the Raptors have a very talented back-court, but that "Noone did more, with less, than the Toronto Raptors did last season." Which struck me

It's almost as though there is another integral part of a basketball team other than a coach. Some other factor that contributes to wins and losses, perhaps even more directly. If only we could find out what this factor is and isolate it we might be able to figure out why some teams are good and other are bad. Is it the city the team is located in? The arena in that city? The fans? The team logo?

Perhaps we could look at other organizations. I mean, Cleveland went from 33 to 53 wins last year and an NBA finals appearance but that was obviously because they hired last offseason David Blatt. And GSW won the title but that was clearly only because Steve Kerr was the head coach.

This elusive factor needs to be run to ground and this mystery solved.

[Wild-ling#1]

It's almost as though there is another integral part of a basketball team other than a coach. Some other factor that contributes to wins and losses, perhaps even more directly. If only we could find out what this factor is and isolate it we might be able to figure out why some teams are good and other are bad. Is it the city the team is located in? The arena in that city? The fans? The team logo?

Perhaps we could look at other organizations. I mean, Cleveland went from 33 to 53 wins last year and an NBA finals appearance but that was obviously because they hired last offseason David Blatt. And GSW won the title but that was clearly only because Steve Kerr was the head coach.

This elusive factor needs to be run to ground and this mystery solved.

Blatt was an interesting story. Keeping Casey means that the players will come to camp with a sense of (relative) calm, focus and stability that might be very useful - even with all the coaching/player changes in the off-season.

And especially as it seems we all know the kinds of things that have to happen, really, on the court.

[Nilanka]

I still maintain that Blatt was a radio contest winner where the prize was the coach the Cavs for a year.

[mcHAPPY]

Blatt was an interesting story. Keeping Casey means that the players will come to camp with a sense, calm focus and continuity that might be very useful.

Especially as it seems we all know the kinds of things that have to happen, really, on the court.

The player might also come to camp wondering if all players are going to be held accountable, if Casey will ever make an in game adjustment, or if he will draw the play up on the correct side of the court.

Reality is none of us know what the players are really thinking.

[Wild-ling#1]

Well, I think (hope?) that everyone in a contract year - and everyone who got a new contract - and all the young additions - and all the veterans who think this is an opportunity not to be squandered - and every player who is happy not to be in New York, or LA - and the boys who are coming back home are thinking, basically:

#ProveEm.

I'll take it.

[mcHAPPY]

Blatt was an interesting story. Keeping Casey means that the players will come to camp with a sense of (relative) calm, focus and stability that might be very useful - even with all the coaching/player changes in the off-season.

And especially as it seems we all know the kinds of things that have to happen, really, on the court.

The player might also come to camp wondering if all players are going to be held accountable, if Casey will ever make an in game adjustment, or if he will draw the play up on the correct side of the court.

Reality is none of us know what the players are really thinking.

Well, I think (hope?) that everyone in a contract year - and everyone who got a new contract - and all the young additions - and all the veterans who think this is an opportunity not to be squandered - and every player who is happy not to be in New York, or LA - and the boys who are coming back home are thinking, basically:

#ProveEm.

I'll take it.

So now we're back to player promoted hashtags.

Notice your original quote you stated what keeping Casey means - as if it was fact.

None of us know what the players are thinking, period.
Just like none of us know Masai's reasons for not firing him, period.




And what exactly are they trying to not squander? A chance at team success? A chance to find a role? A chance to show they belong in the league? A chance to show they are worth max/near max/ML/room money?


If you believe that all those players and coaches are putting the good of the Toronto Raptors and its fans as their number 1 priority, well, I am envious of your lack of jadedness on perspective.

[S.R.]

To recap a couple of pages of comments, I don't mind some fan forum hyperbole at all myself. I find it as refreshing as a freshly unwrapped bar of Irish Spring when OSC comes in here and starts calling people idiots and turds. It's the Internet and this is a fan forum - I think the context here is enough of a qualifier that we don't need to constantly be qualifying our own comments with "this is just my opinion" "now I'm no coach" etc. etc. We know. Let 'er fly and have some fun - it's easy enough to filter out genuine discussion and facts from the emotion and hyperbole, isn't it? I think so.