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Game #11: Toronto Raptors 101 - Sacramento Kings 107
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Demographic Shift wrote: View PostGood points... maybe it would be easier to be a coaching genius then if you had Steph Curry or Kevin Durant in the locker room. Not guaranteed but easier.
That's why some people are calling Brad Stevens a coaching genius. He's got a lineup of scrubs and average players, but he's got them playing smart basketball, way above the sum of parts and expected results. Not even borderline all-star talent on that roster. Also because he did the same thing on multiple occasions in college, with Butler.
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OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostWatch the Utah game?
OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostDid you like how the Raptors went ISO and lost the game?
Over the last 3-4 game stretch there is not much dependability (save for that streak vs GSW) on anyone making anything from the outside in the way of 3 point shots. If thats not there and the defense is being packed in down low the going gets really tough. So the conundrum ... if its not happening on the perimeter and its one an done then you have to go inside. We aren't getting it done there either but going at the basket is always a higher percentage as you can get putbacks or fouls.
OldSkoolCool wrote: View PostYa that is on the coach for not teaching his players how to run an offense to perfection as a go-to in the clutch. ISO is the lazy man's coaching style
We have always been looking for the equivalent of Mariano Rivera on our roster. Closest we had to a game ending closer was Vince.Last edited by Demographic Shift; Thu Nov 19, 2015, 06:27 PM.
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@DS
Watch the Utah game?
Did you like how the Raptors went ISO and lost the game?
Ya that is on the coach for not teaching his players how to run an offense to perfection as a go-to in the clutch. ISO is the lazy man's coaching style
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CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostFirst bold - this is the exact problem several people pointed out, that by playing 4-on-5 offense, it almost forces the team to rely on the inefficient and unsuccessful ISO/hero-ball approach
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostSecond bold - against Cousins, Biyombo was having no greater success than Valanciunas was
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostThird bold - a complete joke, based on perception/reputation instead of reality, per the 2 points above
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostFourth bold - proves the concerns related to the first point above
CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View PostFifth bold - this is where our disagreement lies, if you think the strategy was sound; myself and others don't, largely due to the points above, which have unfortunately been proven right time and time again. It's not that a "plausible strategy" happened to fail, but rather that a poor strategy that was doomed to fail (unless hero-ball bailed it out), did fail.
So it ends ? Or do we grab the smelling salts for round 17 ?
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raptors999 wrote: View PostHe did it to Scola last night. Weird ass rotations are his trademark
There's just no single reason of any kind for him to have kept Biyombo out there. Ok, you gotta put him in for some minutes *since he is the backup...but yeah, when it became clear he was going to ride him out the whole game that decision was terrible in every possible sense. Even if you're going to overuse him and basically throw the game strategically, he didn't even give the guy a breather. I think Casey forgets what it's like to run all out up and down a basketball court.Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Nov 18, 2015, 07:41 PM.
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white men can't jump wrote: View PostI don't know how there's so many pages of debate about this decision.
It was a completely indefensible coaching decision, any way you slice it.
And the whole 18-minute straight thing. He's done that kind of shit before. I distinctly remember him doing that with Hansbrough at C at least once, where Hansbrough played like 15+ minutes straight. That's just obviously bad coaching. There's no justification for it. You exhaust your player who'll play worse and worse as he gets tired, and it also might even increase risk of injury. The guy or two at the same position sitting get ice cold and lose any game rhythm. And you make it easy for your opponent to adjust because of the time they have to do so.
There is simply no reason to play someone like that. If the explanation is Casey trapped himself by not making a sub at some point to rest Biyombo, that's also indefensible, especially with the amount of stoppages in the 4th. Then he was just too stupid to realize how long he had the guy in there and failed to sub him out to give him even a brief rest before riding him again down the stretch.
When you add the whole "the team was obviously worse offensively and at best the same defensively with BB in there", it makes it even more ridiculous. It's not like Biyombo was out there tearing it up. He was struggling with Cousins (like everybody), and a liability (to say the least) on the other end. What is there even to discuss?
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I don't know how there's so many pages of debate about this decision.
It was a completely indefensible coaching decision, any way you slice it.
And the whole 18-minute straight thing. He's done that kind of shit before. I distinctly remember him doing that with Hansbrough at C at least once, where Hansbrough played like 15+ minutes straight. That's just obviously bad coaching. There's no justification for it. You exhaust your player who'll play worse and worse as he gets tired, and it also might even increase risk of injury. The guy or two at the same position sitting get ice cold and lose any game rhythm. And you make it easy for your opponent to adjust because of the time they have to do so.
There is simply no reason to play someone like that. If the explanation is Casey trapped himself by not making a sub at some point to rest Biyombo, that's also indefensible, especially with the amount of stoppages in the 4th. Then he was just too stupid to realize how long he had the guy in there and failed to sub him out to give him even a brief rest before riding him again down the stretch.
When you add the whole "the team was obviously worse offensively and at best the same defensively with BB in there", it makes it even more ridiculous. It's not like Biyombo was out there tearing it up. He was struggling with Cousins (like everybody), and a liability (to say the least) on the other end. What is there even to discuss?
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Demographic Shift wrote: View PostConsider that perhaps he may initially have been forced into it. Jonas was not having a particularly good night offensively. A pretty pedestrian 2 for 9 and 5 boards. Casey isn’t as big a dummy as most portray him to be and very clearly knows Biz is brutal on the offensive end but then how much worse could it be than 2 of 9 that you got from your number 1. Factor in JV wasn’t having much success holding Cousins off the scoresheet. Some nights you know you don’t have it. Your teammates know and as sure as there is going to be snow in Winnipeg in December the coach knows. JV didn’t have it Sunday. So Biz becomes an option here. We are up by 3 at the quarter and Biz had played ~ 9 minutes and he was ready to go. The other option (the never ending project Bebe Noguriea) is in Fort Wayne on assignment. So you make your decision and its Biz going in. You talk to your go to guys (DD and Kyle) that your going to need them to carry the load as BB is going in. Your two guys look up and say .. we got it coach.
So whaddaya know Biz goes in and the lead gets stretched to 10 at the 7 minute mark. Biz has now played 14 minutes but its been broken up with a blow at the quarter and two full time outs taken at the 10 and 8 minute marks. He’s 23. Hes got legs and we are up 10. OK here we go. Biz your back in. In this scenario thats the gamble..that Biz would continue to hold up the defensive end (Sacto had 4 points in 5 minutes) and Casey would ride this out and have his defense win it for him. Time ticks on .. Sacto starts to closes the gap but still .. its two possession game with 3ish to go and we have the ball. However there is still time to sub out Biz and put in a now cold as ice JV off the bench. Tough call. Decision made again to stay with Biz and defense rather than JV to try to win it with offense. As we all painfully saw it went PFFT.. We lost guys in switches for two wide open under the basket dunks and DD and Kyle couldn’t carry the load. We got nada/niente/zappo points the rest of the way. The gamble/decision didn’t pan out. We lost. Rats. Heartbreaker. On to the next one.
From my viewpoint its a plausible strategy in the context of how the game was playing out. Its not always about algorithms and analytics as the game is unfolding at speed with plenty of human variables in play. I think I have said this in staccato fashion amongst the various posts in this long tennis match. You don’t have to agree with this view point or support it.
It is what it is.
Second bold - against Cousins, Biyombo was having no greater success than Valanciunas was
Third bold - a complete joke, based on perception/reputation instead of reality, per the 2 points above
Fourth bold - proves the concerns related to the first point above
Fifth bold - this is where our disagreement lies, if you think the strategy was sound; myself and others don't, largely due to the points above, which have unfortunately been proven right time and time again. It's not that a "plausible strategy" happened to fail, but rather that a poor strategy that was doomed to fail (unless hero-ball bailed it out), did fail.
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golden wrote: View PostI don't know about that. Scott Brooks had Kevin Durant and Mark Jackson had Steph Curry and both of those guys got run out of town with their reputations not so highly regarded.
Neither was considered a coaching genius, except perhaps Brooks for a brief period after he took over, which was relative to how inept a job that PJ Carlesimo had done (he had Durant playing SG position, among other things).
Same thing happened with Mike D'Antoni and the Knicks (Melo, Chandler, Amare), and D'Antoni again with the Lakers (Dwight, Kobe, Pau). It could possibly be happening this season with Alvin Gentry and Anthony Davis.
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Demographic Shift wrote: View PostThree guys think so.Some of the them are even RR superstars..
DanH
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Both could be available at the end of the year.
Edit.. both being McHale and JB Bickerstaff
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DanH wrote:
Both could be available at the end of the year.
True but I don't want to wait that long
Besides, wouldn't it be ideal to land McHale as top dog then have him bring JB as the assistant in the off-season? Win-Win!
ceez
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Besides, wouldn't it be ideal to land McHale as top dog then have him bring JB as the assistant in the off-season? Win-Win!
that'd be really something
think McHale would be a godsend for JV. and probably Lowry.
I think you completely misunderstand the premise of that thread. McHale isn't necessarily at the top of any list but he would be an improvement over Casey.
I would actually have a fair bit of interest in Bickerstaff though. Will be interesting to see how his interim gig goes.
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KHD wrote: View Postbecause people were journalistically fellating everything to do with the Warriors, and therefore thought Gentry was some kind of genius who could bring them to new heights.
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Nilanka wrote: View PostTo be fair to Gentry, I'm not sure how anyone had the Pelicans pegged as a playoff team. That roster is still hot garbage outside of Davis.
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golden wrote: View PostI don't know about that. Scott Brooks had Kevin Durant and Mark Jackson had Steph Curry and both of those guys got run out of town with their reputations not so highly regarded.
Neither was considered a coaching genius, except perhaps Brooks for a brief period after he took over, which was relative to how inept a job that PJ Carlesimo had done (he had Durant playing SG position, among other things).
Same thing happened with Mike D'Antoni and the Knicks (Melo, Chandler, Amare), and D'Antoni again with the Lakers (Dwight, Kobe, Pau). It could possibly be happening this season with Alvin Gentry and Anthony Davis.
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Demographic Shift wrote: View PostFor what its worth... I think if a player the caliber of a Stephan Curry or Kevin Durant suits up for the Raps then anyone of those above mentioned guys becomes a coaching genius.
Neither was considered a coaching genius, except perhaps Brooks for a brief period after he took over, which was relative to how inept a job that PJ Carlesimo had done (he had Durant playing SG position, among other things).
Same thing happened with Mike D'Antoni and the Knicks (Melo, Chandler, Amare), and D'Antoni again with the Lakers (Dwight, Kobe, Pau). It could possibly be happening this season with Alvin Gentry and Anthony Davis.
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