Is the D-League a Viable Way to Develop Young Players?

[JWash]

Because a lot of other top backcourts rest together as well?

They are far better used separately, because of our team construction (very good backup guard in Joseph who can replace either player beside the other) and offensive system (which requires multiple ball handlers on the court).

Disagree. They can be used well separately for stretches (Lowry moreso than DeMar) but they're at their best playing together so we should be looking to maximize that.

[3inthekeon]

Would be pretty awesome if Bruno saw even a quarter of the total minutes those guys have.

Jordan Mickey has played 38 minutes total for the Celtics. So you're saying it would be pretty awesome if Bruno had played 9 1/2 minutes this year instead of 4?

[tDotted]

Jordan Mickey has played 38 minutes total for the Celtics. So you're saying it would be pretty awesome if Bruno had played 9 1/2 minutes this year instead of 4?

Yeah. Yeah it would.

[DanH]

Disagree. They can be used well separately for stretches (Lowry moreso than DeMar) but they're at their best playing together so we should be looking to maximize that.

See, you say they are at their best together, but do you have any support for that?

[Barolt]

Disagree. They can be used well separately for stretches (Lowry moreso than DeMar) but they're at their best playing together so we should be looking to maximize that.

Statistically speaking, Lowry is almost unquestionably better without DeMar on the floor actually. DeMar is much better when Lowry is on the floor though.

[SkywalkerAC]

I think people underrate how happy Casey keeps his rotation guys by playing them the minutes he does. Meanwhile, the youngsters are kept hungry until rewarded for hard work as Powell has been. That's kind of the way it should be - clear expectations, clear pecking order, young guys ready to step up when their number is called, and an alternate route for those same young players to improve and prove themselves in the meantime (the 905).

[SkywalkerAC]

Statistically speaking, Lowry is almost unquestionably better without DeMar on the floor actually. DeMar is much better when Lowry is on the floor though.

But does Lowry have to expend as much energy when playing with DeMar? That's a little more difficult to ascertain.

[Barolt]

I think people underrate how happy Casey keeps his rotation guys by playing them the minutes he does. Meanwhile, the youngsters are kept hungry until rewarded for hard work as Powell has been. That's kind of the way it should be - clear expectations, clear pecking order, young guys ready to step up when their number is called, and an alternate route for those same young players to improve and prove themselves in the meantime (the 905).

You can claim this is true with regards to Lowry/DeMar and now Powell, but it's not true with regards to almost anyone else.

Patterson, Ross and CoJo have all seen minutes drop after their better games this season, and didn't see minutes increases after the January in which they were incredibly dominant as a bench group.

JV doesn't see his minutes or touches increase even in games in which he is directly dominating.

[Barolt]

But does Lowry have to expend as much energy when playing with DeMar? That's a little more difficult to ascertain.

Lately in the Lowry/CoJo/Ross backcourt, which is statistically our best grouping all year, Lowry isn't doing much of the ball handling, CoJo and Ross are doing a lot of it.

[Mess]

I think people underrate how happy Casey keeps his rotation guys by playing them the minutes he does. Meanwhile, the youngsters are kept hungry until rewarded for hard work as Powell has been. That's kind of the way it should be - clear expectations, clear pecking order, young guys ready to step up when their number is called, and an alternate route for those same young players to improve and prove themselves in the meantime (the 905).

No no you've got it all wrong. Casey should be using an algorithm based on lineup +/- data to determine the maximum playing time of each of the rookies (which of course will maximize their development, congruent to paying the most for a college) while achieving (but not surpassing) a predetermined acceptable point differential and/or # of wins.

[Barolt]

No no you've got it all wrong. Casey should be using an algorithm based on lineup +/- data to determine the maximum playing time of each of the rookies (which of course will maximize their development, congruent to paying the most for a college) while achieving (but not surpassing) a predetermined point differential and/or # of wins.

So, because you can't rely completely on analytics, we should just disregard them completely?

Or would you agree that analytics should be part of the process?

[DanH]

Statistically speaking, Lowry is almost unquestionably better without DeMar on the floor actually. DeMar is much better when Lowry is on the floor though.

Although the team performs better with both than with just DeMar, he individually performs almost the same (55 TS% with or without Lowry even with a usage spike with him off the floor, AST% up, REB% up).

And there are lineups without Lowry and with DeMar that have been very successful. DeMar + bench is really good too, not quite Lowry + bench but very good. DeMar + JV + bench is very good. DeMar + JJ + bench too. As are the starters (JJ version) with Cory in place of Lowry. In fact, those are the top 4 lineups in MP with DD but without KL. All of them have an on-court net rating between +9 and +16.

[SkywalkerAC]

You can claim this is true with regards to Lowry/DeMar and now Powell, but it's not true with regards to almost anyone else.

Patterson, Ross and CoJo have all seen minutes drop after their better games this season, and didn't see minutes increases after the January in which they were incredibly dominant as a bench group.

JV doesn't see his minutes or touches increase even in games in which he is directly dominating.

Overall consistency is the approach, not game-by-game or in-game reward.

[OldSkoolCool]

DanH hit the nail on the head.

Work a young guy into the rotation for a weak game on the schedule for that week. The tougher games you still lean on Lowry/DD and remain competitive.

Also CoJo and Ross need rest too...doesnt have to be Lowry/DD. also JJ has been awful...substituting Powell for all of JJs minutes will not have a worse effect than JJ...so he should still be getting more than he has

Looking at this based on season averages wont really work as the games you play the young guys in are essentially outliers to the normal data we have available to us. So cant correlate that

....And Bebe not playing when JV is injured is just plain stupid

[blackjitsu]

Yeah. Yeah it would.

Again, I implore people to watch the 905 games. Bruno has gone from nothing resembling a basketball player -- just a long guy who could shoot threes -- into an actual basketball player who can defend and score within a system. He's gained skill, knowledge and confidence in the d league. Being humiliated at NBA full speed for brief stints would not have benefited his game the way playing in the nbdl has. The ideal for Bruno is he trains with the Raps and works with JJ and then plays games for the 905.

It's highly unlikely a team in the lottery was going to draft him and have him play minutes in the NBA. If they drafted him, he would have been a 2nd rounder who would be on a non guaranteed contract, or stashed in Europe. If a first round team after Toronto picked him, he would have been either stashed, or sent to the nbdl. It's highly unlikely that a player of his ilk, was ever going to be drafted and given the type of minutes you're suggesting he should get.

We're not talking about a lottery pick. Bruno was an extremely raw player that many thought the Raps could have picked up in the second round.

Strange, I thought everyone was talking about Bebe's minutes not Bruno's. I thought that people realized that giving Bruno minutes was a bad idea.