Ya I don't know what other team could offer them much more than us. LA, NY and Brooklyn will all want to retain assets and cap room. I don't see Boston or Philly jeopardizing their youth. Any young team would be silly to offer something, as I don't think Jimmy as your best player gets you far. That doesn't leave much. Maybe Denver? New Orleans? Portland? Milwaukee?
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I found a report here about Jimmy:
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/20...t-this-summer/
Looks like Jimmy just wants $$$. He would have stuck around in Minny if instead of giving him a 4 year $100M extension (which they offered), that they renegotiate his contract and then extend him to a 5 year $190M offer (basically the full max, which is about $38M per year). They didn't do that and now he's looking for that 5 year max extension from a team like LAC, Brooklyn or NY (which I think he can get if he's traded now).
So Toronto could hypothetically hold on to Jimmy if they gave him that max contract. Is Jimmy worth $38M a year? That seems like a lot for a guy that's banged up as much as he is.
If Masai wants to shell out $190M for Jimmy for the next 5 years.. he's ours even if he's not on our wish list I bet.
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planetmars wrote: View PostI found a report here about Jimmy:
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/20...t-this-summer/
Looks like Jimmy just wants $$$. He would have stuck around in Minny if instead of giving him a 4 year $100M extension (which they offered), that they renegotiate his contract and then extend him to a 5 year $190M offer (basically the full max, which is about $38M per year). They didn't do that and now he's looking for that 5 year max extension from a team like LAC, Brooklyn or NY (which I think he can get if he's traded now).
So Toronto could hypothetically hold on to Jimmy if they gave him that max contract. Is Jimmy worth $38M a year? That seems like a lot for a guy that's banged up as much as he is.
If Masai wants to shell out $190M for Jimmy for the next 5 years.. he's ours even if he's not on our wish list I bet.
If this was in fact mostly about money then let someone else trade for him.
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Hotshot wrote: View PostJimmy isn't worth that much money and by next summer he will be 30 years old. This was also part of the reason Masai had no qualms trading DeRozan because the thought of re-signing him in 2 years to another max contract at the age of 31 is not a good idea.
If this was in fact mostly about money then let someone else trade for him.
So if Masai has interest than it would either be for a rental (which than means the assets we give back should be our worst assets), or he really wants him here for the 5 years.
Butler >>> DeRozan since Butler is a legit 2-way player. But in 2-3 years that contract is going to be awful. Just like John Wall's deal in Washington which is going to kick in this year I believe.
I'm glad I'm not Masai. On one hand it would be cool to have a legit guy like Jimmy play for you. But on the other it could really screw things up for the future.
Was pro Jimmy before I saw that article lol. Now I'm not so sure.
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I wouldn't hesitate at all to re-sign Jimmy long term assuming we are also re-signing Kawhi.
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planetmars wrote: View PostI found a report here about Jimmy:
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/09/20...t-this-summer/
Looks like Jimmy just wants $$$. He would have stuck around in Minny if instead of giving him a 4 year $100M extension (which they offered), that they renegotiate his contract and then extend him to a 5 year $190M offer (basically the full max, which is about $38M per year). They didn't do that and now he's looking for that 5 year max extension from a team like LAC, Brooklyn or NY (which I think he can get if he's traded now).
So Toronto could hypothetically hold on to Jimmy if they gave him that max contract. Is Jimmy worth $38M a year? That seems like a lot for a guy that's banged up as much as he is.
If Masai wants to shell out $190M for Jimmy for the next 5 years.. he's ours even if he's not on our wish list I bet.
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inthepaint wrote: View PostMe neither, but if Jimmy comes here, strong chance he's dragging Kawhi to the Clippers with him next summer.
Meanwhile, the odds of both playing for the Raps in 19-20 is basically zero if we don't trade for him.
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planetmars wrote: View PostA few things we learned last night.. and this Butler stuff is a mess:
- Butler will not attend training camp for the Wolves and asks for a trade
- His desire is still to go to LAC (first choice), NY and Brooklyn (this has not changed, as far as I know)
- Thibs wants win now players
- Thibs would rather hold on to Butler and not trade him
- Taylor (the Wolves owner) has taken over negotiations and wants to trade Butler
- Dieng has to be included in any Butler trade
Taylor stepping in is like Larry Tanenbaum stepping in for Masai. It just doesn't happen. Taylor is going to botch this so badly.
So this gives a team like Toronto (who's not in Butler's list of destinations) a chance to step in. But Masai/Webster would need to go in without giving up a majority of their depth (our bench was a reason why were so elite last year).
Norm+Serge for Butler+Dieng is a really big poo poo platter. You take that every day of the week. We get rid of our worst two contracts and take back one bad contract and a top 15 player in the NBA. Taylor may be an idiot but I don't think he'd do it. Although if he insists that Dieng be part of the trade package this package might win out.
The one thing NY, Brookly and LAC all have in common is that they want to hoard cap space. Dieng has a $16M stranglehold on the cap next year (and another year after that). This could screw up those teams chances in acquiring a second max player to play with Jimmy. So they may not want to make a deal for Dieng which could put them in the back seat in trade negotiations (again if Dieng has to be included).
Raptors can take on Dieng.. our plan B if Kawhi leaves is to dismantle the team and tank.. or tread water until 2020 when Giannis becomes a free agent (and hope he wants to come here). I'm sure Masai has a connection with Dieng through his BWB organization as well. We aren't hoarding cap space.. so taking on Dieng won't kill us. Besides if we offer Serge we'd need a backup center (or a tertiary one behind Monroe).
There are disadvantages with bringing in a guy like Jimmy though.
He's a guy that likes to have the ball in his hand. With Kawhi on the roster you pretty much want him to have the ball most of the time since he's better than Jimmy. So that could create some friction on the court. He's also not a great 3pt shooter, and Nurse loves shooters.
Jimmy also has this reputation of being a locker room killer. We heard stories from his days in Chicago and now Minny where he seems to openly trash his own teammates. KAT won't sign an extension until Jimmy is booted for example. Playing with Lowry and Kawhi might fix a lot of that but that can be an issue. Nurse is also still a rookie head coach, and having an ego like Jimmy to deal with might not be easy. He wants to go to LAC. So does Kawhi. They can collude together during the year and both jet at the same time.
On paper though having Kawhi, Lowry and Jimmy likes like it could be lethal. Defensively for sure.. A GSW/Toronto series could be a lot of fun.
I would make any Jimmy deal as long as it doesn't include Kawhi, OG, Siakam, JV, or any first round pick. I'm on the fence with Lowry since I think Fred is capable enough to be our starting guard. But I'd prefer not to. Fred can't be traded until January so he's pretty much safe since it seems Taylor wants to get this done early.
Like Melo, Butler doesn't fit in with what Kawhi and Lowry are so good at doing: shooting the 3, playing off-the-ball, and dominant in the pick-&-roll.
Butler is ball-dominant but doesn't necessarily have an advantage every night offensively, unlike Lowry or Kawhi. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
I feel we overlook the on-court disadvantages because Butler is an all-star, and arguably a top-15 player. Offensively, he's not great at one. He's a jack-of-all-trades offensive player. However, what puts him above the rest is how good he is as a rebounding forward, and obviously as a top-five perimeter defender in the league.
Looking at the roster and how Nick Nurse intends to the utitlize a similar system to last season, Butler is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole; it's not going to work, in my opinion.
At first, I was on the "trade for Butler" train, but after having some time to think, I'd prefer to stay away from gutting the team's depth to acquire a guy who will take opportunities away from Lowry/Kawhi, and cause locker room strife based on his track record in both Chicago and Minnesota.Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.
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The pieces are starting to fall together for a deal tho..
Report: Wolves want to dump Gorgui Dieng in any Jimmy Butler deal. https://t.co/VnovB92WYU pic.twitter.com/2idT9r15tn
— theScore (@theScore) September 22, 2018
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007 wrote: View PostStory filed to ESPN: As Minnesota’s front office tells inquiring rivals that team has no plans to trade Jimmy Butler, owner Glen Taylor had a different message at NBA’s Board of Governors meetings: Butler is available and owners/GM’s should contact Taylor himself if necessary.
— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) September 21, 2018
Damn lol
I want him out of here.
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